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Papa3
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Re: Long WUs still occurring

The contribution of a five-year-old computer to WCG, even if it ran 24/7, would also be close to zero.

papa3: I think that there are very many 5-year-old computers out there on people's desktops, and WCG's aim is to include as many contributors as possible, so that the slower machines can make a useful contribution just by sheer numbers.

I am more skeptical that there are so many 5-year-old computers out there. Computers are usually depreciated to zero value within three years and are typically replaced every three years. But if Sekerob's prediction that it will soon be possible to send out work units sized according to the client's appetite, then this technology will certainly make it possible for weak and strong clients to coexist happily (without weak clients imposing the high network traffic of short WUs on everyone else). I hope that when this technology becomes available, it will be possible for the user to influence the WU size though some sort of preference setting. With a 12-day window, as a 24/7 cruncher I would probably want to routinely pull down 4-day (96-hour) jobs, possibly even longer than that!
[Oct 24, 2008 8:26:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
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Re: Long WU still occuring

Your assumption that I was referring to any project other than FaaH is incorrect. Please note that this thread exists within the FaaH forum. Thus, statements made within it refer to Faah unless otherwise specified.

OK, good remark, I have given more info than necessary. But that would not have been the first time that somebody makes a general statement or ask a general question in a project-specific forum. smile
Anyway, what I said about FAAH is still true.

Cheers. Jean.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Long WUs still occurring

I hope that when this technology becomes available, it will be possible for the user to influence the WU size though some sort of preference setting. With a 12-day window, as a 24/7 cruncher I would probably want to routinely pull down 4-day (96-hour) jobs, possibly even longer than that!

I have the same wish as you but for the opposite reason: I don't like long WUs for several reasons. The first one is that I like to see things moving. An other one is that I want to be able to jump from one project to another very quickly, say in a few hours only, for testing purpose or to evaluate a new project as soon as possible. With a quad and not too long WUs this is easily achievable. But if the new feature is automatically sending longer units to faster machines and shorter ones to slower machines I am afraid my quad will get stuck by what I consider today as monster units (so you guess how I see your 4-day units! smile ). Also, I have no bandwith or traffic problem, 12 Mb download speed most of the time and no traffic limit from the ISP, therefore traffic has never been a problem for me, even when AC@H was running.

But different people, different needs, and I understand that you like or need long WUs. I am only wishing that they will not be imposed regardless of members preferences.

Cheers. Jean.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Long WUs still occurring

I am more skeptical that there are so many 5-year-old computers out there. Computers are usually depreciated to zero value within three years and are typically replaced every three years.

This comment is valid for business companies with the same accounting rules and enough taxable profit which makes them interested in offsetting part of it with depreciating new machines that they do not really need.

For all other business companies which do not fit in this profile, for all state administrations, state universities, small businesses always fearing that too many unpaid bills put them in trouble, and obviously for all individuals whose main computer usage is for mail, surfing the web, playing quiet games and editing pictures a 5-year old PC is simply a free PC which does the job the same as a brand new one 10 or more times too powerful for what they need to do.

Last, do not forget that most countries are not as rich as the USA, and most of those which are as much or more rich are small countries whose contribution to WCG is obviously not sufficient for making WCGrid as powerful as it is nowadays.

More figures to support this post will come in my next post.

Cheers. Jean.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Long WUs still occurring

The contribution of a five-year-old computer to WCG, even if it ran 24/7, would also be close to zero.
...
I am more skeptical that there are so many 5-year-old computers out there.

First, what is a 5-year old computer? It just happens that I have one running 24/7 close to my quad. Precisely it is 5 years and one month old and when I bought it it was in the upper part of the range of normal machines, I mean excluding those high tech machines that you can buy twice cheaper only by waiting 6 months! At this time those very good "normal" machines were Pentium 4 HT, and mine is only a 2.4 GHz one.

This machine is returning 180 credits a day, which is far from your outstanding daily contribution, but is not "close to zero" by all means. Practically, to set things clearly it is about one eighth of the quad I have built earlier this year (only for fun and curiosity, because the P4 is still much more powerful than what I need). 1/8th is not null, and 1/4th (compared to a common dual core) is even less negligible.

So 180 credits a day, that makes a monthly contribution of 5400 credits per month in my 24/7 case, 1800 credits a month for machines running only 8 hours a day, and 900 for those which run 4 hours in the evening.

After reading your initial post earlier this week I have spent some time studying BoincStats individual "month" results for WCG. Here it goes:
Over the last 30 days,
81,818 members have contributed at least 1 credit (not that many members, by the way)
30,133 members (37 %) have contributed less than 900 credits (4 hours/day)
44,139 members (54 %) have contributed less than 1,800 credits (8 hours/day)
64,280 members (79 %) have contributed less than 5,400 credits (full time)
This is a count of members who have not more or do not contribute more than a 5-year old P4 HT. In addition to those you must not forget members like me with a higher contribution but who achieve it with some P4 HT (or worse!) in their "farms".

So, still thinking that 5-year old machines contribution is close to zero and that WCG can afford to ignore them? smile

Cheers. Jean.
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KerSamson
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Re: Long WUs still occurring

Hi everybody,
I agree with Jean's statement; we should not depreciate the performance of "old" systems.
I joined WCG end of January 2007 with my "best" system: P4, HT, 3 GHz. It was already 4 years old at this time. This hosts is still running today and brough - without any kind of optimization nor OC - around 1'207'735 WCG points, 172'585 Boinc credits. According to boincstats, this host is part of the best 6'000 hosts worldwide. I cannot consider this participation as "nothing".
I am aware that since two years the release and spreading of multicore systems distorts dramatically the perception we have of computation power.
However, if we are only expecting powerful contributors with powerful hosts, WCG will not do any progress. We say into French "Les petits ruisseaux font les grandes rivières" (small rivulets generate big rivers). I think that it is exactly the meaning of WCG contribution. Alone, we bring only a couple of points daily. Together we can help change the world.
Cheers,
Yves
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logaritse
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Re: Long WUs still occurring

old or new all of my pc crunch everyday 24/7 (start from pentium II until quad core) wink right now it seems we face the longest WU, 20++ hours crying (4580 - 4599) sad

wondering when all WCG member crunching FAAH, may be next year will be complete laughing
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