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twilyth
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Re: Machine Thrashing

So why don't you try asking instead of getting irritable? I guess it's time for yet another complaint to the admins.


I'm sorry. but that helps the situation how?

To the OP
I've seen a few posts where members changing from UD to BOINC have experienced hotter systems. I'm not sure on the validity of that, but it could be due to the higher disk activity when using BOINC.

Fortunately BOINC is very customizable and as Sgt Joe has mentioned, disk activity can be adjusted. Personally, 999 seconds is a bit high (16 mins+), but whatever works.

Many new motherboards have an onboard fan throttle as well, and the higher system heat may be also affecting the CPU temp thus forcing your CPU fan to run at a higher rate than normal. This may be part of the additional noise you are experiencing.

Hope you get it sorted.

I should have quoted Didactylos' post when I wrote that since in retrospect i guess it might not have been clear to whom it was directed.

BOINC isn't going to increase heat produced by disk drives since the drives are spinning all of time anyway - unless you have the inactivity monitor set to something lower than boinc's hdd access setting. And that isn't a good idea since repeatedly spinning the drive up and down will cause it to wear out much faster than letting it run continuously.

The ventilation fans in the case should be sufficient to prevent the build up of heat. I think the only time this would be a problem is if you build the system yourself and didn't install enough fans, the fans don't move enough air or you're overclocking and don't upgrade your ventilation. Any reputable manufacture will make sure that the case fans move enough air.

Any additional noise is almost certainly being caused by the cpu fan although ventilation fans tied in to the motherboard could be a problem too. G-man's advice about cleaning out the cpu heat sink is on the money, but even with a clean setup, the stock fans aren't very good. They'll do the job, but they're not the best quality. A brand name aftermarket fan/heatsink will almost certainly be quieter, will be more efficient and will last longer. A good site for quiet computing is http://www.endpcnoise.com/ - look in the left margin for Intel and AMD cpu fans.
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[Mar 24, 2008 1:09:09 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
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Re: Machine Thrashing

Hello RichardHome!
It seems that you and Didactylos have entered a vicious circle. You don't know what to tell us about your machine to help, and Didactylos does not feel like enumerating all possible reasons for your machine being slower or excessively accessing the hard disk, if this is close to what you mean by "thrashing".

Fortunately Boinc is good also for easing your providing useful information.
Make sure you are using the advanced view and click on the Messages tab.
Once there, scroll back to the top of the list of messages.
Select all the startup messages from "Starting Boinc client..." down to the first "Starting (or restarting) task .....".
Then click on "Copy selected messages" in the leftmost column.
Last, use paste (Ctrl+V) in your next message to this thread and we will know everything we need to provide you with more useful answers.

Other advices posted while I am typing this post may be useful, but if excessive disk activity is due to memory swapping the "write to disk" interval will be of no help.

Cheers. Jean.
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[Mar 24, 2008 1:12:01 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Machine Thrashing

...BOINC isn't going to increase heat produced by disk drives since the drives are spinning all of time anyway...


I can't compare UD to BOINC as I've always used BOINC while crunchiong under the WCG umbrella. But, if BOINC does access the disk more often in the default mode, the drive will most certainly produce more heat.

The more the activity, the more power is required. Extra power means more heat. This acticle delves into heat dissipation with the various hard drive manufacturers.

Jean also brings up another good point. If the OP's system memory is a bit shy and there is increased disk activity due to memory swapping, the additional heat produced will be quite dramatic.
[Mar 24, 2008 2:09:54 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: Machine Thrashing

But, if BOINC does access the disk more often in the default mode, the drive will most certainly produce more heat.

Jean also brings up another good point. If the OP's system memory is a bit shy and there is increased disk activity due to memory swapping, the additional heat produced will be quite dramatic.

From the article, it seems that most drives use more power when actually doing something, but the amount varies tremendously - look at the Western Digital drives - almost no difference at all. That's pretty interesting since the only difference between idling and an io operation is the current to the voice coil and movement of the head - which has very little mass. But even with a 100% increase, you're still talking about at most 12-13 watts - ignoring the 10k and 15k drives - and even some of those aren't that bad (something that surprised me). If you keep the 60 second default for boinc hdd access - how much is that likely to add up to? It's not like boinc is continually accessing the drive for those 60 seconds. It's maybe a fraction of a second.

As for swapfile access, maybe if you're really low on memory and your system is bogged down doing memory swaps I could see it. Boinc can definitely chew up a lot of ram - on this machine it's over 100meg for 4 tasks. But even then you're talking about an additional 6 or 7 watts at most - which won't be the average for all users. Isn't that about what an old fashioned incandescent night light puts out?

I'm ignoring the 10k and 15k drives since these are performance drives and personally I wouldn't touch them. I'd use a solid state disk if I really needed that kind of performance. Plus I'm sure that the vast majority of people are still using 5k and 7.2k drives. But as I said, some of these aren't even that bad.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Mar 24, 2008 2:56:58 AM]
[Mar 24, 2008 2:54:45 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Machine Thrashing

@RichardHome,

Fundamentally BOINC uses slightly less ram, per job, and is not encrypting every disk transaction as UD does, which should make it faster at what it does. If a low rammed machine with e.g. a P4HT CPU were previously running 1 job on UD and now 2 jobs, because the BOINC profile default is to use up to 16 available processors including 'virtual' processors, I can see where this stems from, particularly if also there is a highly fragmentated disk partition.

Set the BOINC profile preferences to 1 CPU/Processor (Advanced menu, Preferences, Processor Usage tab near the bottom) and see what happens to the trashing. Even the Preset "Minimal Impact" device profile seems to default in using the first 2 CPU cores available.

And, please also follow JmBoullier's post for the start up message log. That piece usually tells us all the basic system info we like to review.

ttyl
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[Mar 24, 2008 10:49:11 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
retsof
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Re: Machine Thrashing

I have reduced my own HD thrashing on my X2 by installing a second hard drive. The first one still contains the OS and BOINC and the second now has the windows swap file/virtual memory and backups from other types of programs.

We are still not clear whether the original problem relates to thrashing (excessive disk head movement) or trashing (CPU dead). It might also be a fragmentation issue, which can also cause disk thrashing.

This is only evident to me because my home office is next to my bedroom, and the computer now continually whines (well, it did till I throttled back WCG).
whining sounds like the fan at 100% CPU activity. That is by design, but the cabinet could be full of dust, causing noise.

Constant disk activity would have the disk activity light occulting instead of flashing.

$2 word definitions:
flashing - light is off more than it is on
occulting - light is on more than it is off
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[Edit 7 times, last edit by retsof at Mar 24, 2008 3:19:31 PM]
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