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re Credits

Thanks for your reply

I found and checked stats on my grid mem stat hist and it just confirms my suspision the results were not credited.The fact of being able to have the same work units reported twice and suceeded twice: with the coresponing lower run time, points generated and results returned for the same date makes me think that they were not credited. I do not know where else to look nor do I know how to correct this. That I think would be for the database gnomes

Thank You

[Mar 16, 2008 10:45:44 AM]

Sekerob
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Re: re Credits

Hi again,

don't know why you did not post your reply to the existing thread , but no we have no gnomes. You get your credit in conformity when the quorum is complete and the validation is successful. Your Results are most likely in "Pending Validation" per the status column as per the description in the Start Here forum FAQ posts.

The personal My Grid stats only update 2x a day, so you wont see any points (BOINC credit grand times 7) until the next time after the validation was complete.

ciao

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Mar 16, 2008 11:13:49 AM]

[Mar 16, 2008 11:05:44 AM]

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Re: re Credits

According to the log you posted, the work units were only reported once. The first time failed, so BOINC tried again.

Everything worked perfectly; nothing to worry about.

[Mar 16, 2008 11:15:18 AM]

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Re: re Credits

According to the log you posted, the work units were only reported once. The first time failed, so BOINC tried again.

Everything worked perfectly; nothing to worry about.

Thu 13 Mar 2008 07:59:45 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler
request: Requested by user. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 6
completed tasks
Thu 13 Mar 2008 07:59:49 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request
succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Thu 13 Mar 2008 07:59:49 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Message from
server: Server can't open database
Thu 13 Mar 2008 08:01:54 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler
request: Requested by user. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 6
completed tasks
Thu 13 Mar 2008 08:01:59 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request
succeeded: got 0 new tasks

Maybe I am missing something. I distintly see two statements saying Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks , one at 7:59 49 and one at 8:01:59 pm on thursday march 13. Boinc did nothing automatically, I updated manually both times, the second time i updated I referred to it in my post when i said (I) updated it because it staid(stayed) on the screen (meaning on the list of work units)
If it suceeded only once why does it not reflect it in mar 13th stats? If I noticed too much credit I would have raised question as well. I knew all where valid before I asked and that the quarum was complete.

03/17/2008 0:002:08:58:00 3,328 9
03/16/2008 0:003:12:54:24 4,780 12
03/15/2008 0:004:13:07:11 5,979 14
03/14/2008 0:003:16:19:43 5,121 14
03/13/2008 0:001:13:28:53 1,592 4
03/12/2008 0:004:20:53:58 6,021 16
03/11/2008 0:003:04:14:22 4,021 9
03/10/2008 0:002:12:04:10 3,461 33
03/09/2008 0:003:05:22:38 4,343 52
03/08/2008 0:003:03:37:25 3,905 54
03/07/2008 0:003:22:50:34 5,387 72
03/06/2008 0:003:16:27:43 4,334 58
03/05/2008 0:003:22:18:36 5,203 69
03/04/2008 0:005:11:22:59 6,379 80

I know why I did not post my reply to the existing thread, its because i am ignorant of proceedures for chat lines and learning. What i do not know is what i inquired about in the first place. Sorry I mentioned gnomes because now the gremlins have started to play on my machines This one had a wu stall, from when i uploaded manually another unit, untill I came back and then suspended and then resumed it.

Mon 17 Mar 2008 04:33:28 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0708_100015_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:08:36 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: Requested by user. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:08:41 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:56:03 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Restarting task dddt0401l0708_100071_0 using dddt version 515

Another machine had 3 work units jump que and upload, declaring themselves as errors.They had not even started working and there were other wu's in progress in each core.This machine started uploading itself finally, eariier today, but I don't like the way it's doing it

Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:45 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of
dddt0401l0687_100302_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:48 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler
request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work,
reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:53 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request
succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:33:58 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler
request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work,
reporting 3 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:34:03 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request
succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:36 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for
task dddt0401l0687_100358_1 finished

dddt0401l0687_ 100003_ 2-- In Progress 03/17/2008 22:44:03 03/20/2008 08:20:03 0.00 0.0 / 0.0
dddt0401l0687_ 100003_ 1-- Pending Validation 03/05/2008 22:44:19 03/07/2008 04:41:55 4.77 34.5 / 0.0
dddt0401l0687_ 100003_ 0-- Error 03/05/2008 22:39:43 03/18/2008 00:35:13 0.00 0.0 / 0.0

dddt0401l0687_ 100308_ 2-- In Progress 03/17/2008 22:43:49 03/20/2008 08:19:49 0.00 0.0 / 0.0
dddt0401l0687_ 100308_ 1-- Pending Validation 03/05/2008 22:46:48 03/06/2008 07:25:58 4.55 64.3 / 0.0
dddt0401l0687_ 100308_ 0-- Error 03/05/2008 22:39:43 03/18/2008 00:35:13 0.00 0.0 / 0.0

dddt0401l0687_ 100423_ 2-- In Progress 03/17/2008 22:48:45 03/20/2008 08:24:45 0.00 0.0 / 0.0
dddt0401l0687_ 100423_ 1-- Pending Validation 03/05/2008 22:48:12 03/06/2008 09:20:07 1.98 53.0 / 0.0
dddt0401l0687_ 100423_ 0-- Error 03/05/2008 22:39:43 03/18/2008 00:35:13 0.00 0.0 / 0.0

Does anyone know what this is about?

Thank You

[Mar 18, 2008 5:53:24 AM]

Former Member
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Re: re Credits

You don't always get credit on the day you report. Here is an explanation: http://www.wcgwiki.org/en/boinc/validation.cfm

Sorry, it's really not practical for us to explain every single work unit you're worried about. If you have a specific concern, I would be happy to answer it.

[Mar 18, 2008 6:27:13 AM]

Sekerob
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Re: re Credits

Hi JR

The ones missing in the threesome are the leprechauns ;D

Occasionally a transmission of ".... reporting 6
completed tasks" do not clear properly. The client tries again, the server confirms, but internally really only knows of you having 1 copy of each of the 6, so just disgards a second report, if it is one. Seemingly it was such a case. Credits wont be given until quorum complete and work subsequently validating. Points in your daily credit listing wont get added until then, which can in cases take 7-10 days, sometimes longer (am seeing several in my RS list of 12 days old and still in Pending Validation).

For the other 3 going into 'error' immediately, post us more of the message log from the BOINC client. The piece you include at bottom before the quorum detail has Work Unit numbers that do not relate to the 'erred' copies. Also visit the Result Status page and click on the 'Error' in the status column to bring up the problem log.

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[Mar 18, 2008 6:30:56 AM]

Sekerob
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Re: re Credits

Didactylos, would be nice of some outdated info in that wiki could be updated.... quorum 3 is a long time ago now.

cheers

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Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
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[Mar 18, 2008 6:32:53 AM]

Former Member
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Re: re Credits

Hi Sekerob

Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Starting BOINC client version 5.10.28 for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||log flags: task, file_xfer, sched_ops
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Libraries: libcurl/7.17.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8g zlib/1.2.3
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Data directory: /home/bill/Boinc/BOINC
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Processor: 2 AuthenticAMD AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+ [Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2]
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Processor features: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow rep_good pni cx16 lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||OS: Linux: 2.6.24.3-12.fc8
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Memory: 971.36 MB physical, 1.17 GB virtual
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Disk: 18.84 GB total, 15.65 GB free
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Local time is UTC -4 hours
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT|World Community Grid|URL: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/; Computer ID: 276254; location: school; project prefs: school
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||General prefs: from World Community Grid (last modified 16-Mar-2008 05:44:50)
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Host location: school
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||General prefs: using separate prefs for school
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Reading preferences override file
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Preferences limit memory usage when active to 971.36MB
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Preferences limit memory usage when idle to 971.36MB
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:36 AM EDT||Preferences limit disk usage to 9.31GB
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:37 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Restarting task dddt0401l0687_100131_0 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:23:37 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Restarting task dddt0401l0687_100209_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:54:58 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100131_0 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:54:58 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100157_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:54:59 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100157_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:55:01 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100131_0_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:55:01 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100131_0_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:55:06 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100131_0_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:55:14 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100131_0_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:55:20 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:55:25 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:11 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100209_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:11 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100244_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:12 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100244_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:14 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100209_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:14 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100209_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:17 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100209_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:25 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100209_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:29 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:47:34 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:28 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100157_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:29 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100108_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:29 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100108_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:30 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100157_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:30 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100157_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:35 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100157_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:43 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100157_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:45 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 06:55:50 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:05 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100244_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:06 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100146_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:06 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100146_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:08 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100244_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:08 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100244_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:12 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100244_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:19 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100244_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:22 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:45:27 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:13 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100108_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:13 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100171_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:14 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100171_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:15 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100108_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:15 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100108_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:21 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100108_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:28 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100108_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:30 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 12:50:35 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:25 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100146_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:25 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100302_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:25 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100302_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:27 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100146_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:27 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100146_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:30 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100146_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:40 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100146_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:44 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 03:09:49 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:10:55 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100171_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:10:55 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100358_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:10:55 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100358_1 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:10:57 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100171_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:10:57 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100171_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:11:00 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100171_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:11:05 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100171_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:11:06 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 05:11:12 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:30 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100302_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:30 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0687_100367_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:30 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0687_100367_0 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:32 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100302_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:32 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100302_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:37 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100302_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:45 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100302_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:48 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:32:53 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:33:58 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 3 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:34:03 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:36 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100358_1 finished
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:37 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0700_100266_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:37 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0700_100266_0 using dddt version 515
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:39 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100358_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:39 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100358_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:44 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100358_1_0
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:50 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100358_1_1
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:54 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Mon 17 Mar 2008 10:17:59 PM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:02 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Computation for task dddt0401l0687_100367_0 finished
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:02 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting dddt0401l0700_100393_1
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:02 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Starting task dddt0401l0700_100393_1 using dddt version 515
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:04 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100367_0_0
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:04 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Started upload of dddt0401l0687_100367_0_1
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:07 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100367_0_0
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:12 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Finished upload of dddt0401l0687_100367_0_1
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:13 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks. Requesting 0 seconds of work, reporting 1 completed tasks
Tue 18 Mar 2008 12:52:18 AM EDT|World Community Grid|Scheduler request succeeded: got 0 new tasks

This full log for today. The 3 reported at Mon 17 Mar 2008 08:33:58 PM EDT in this log I assumed were the same as the ones 03/18/2008 00:35:13 GMT?
The 3 reported errors I do not think were ever started working on this machine. They were in the queue last time I looked, then jumped ship.

Come to think of it the time difference is probably the explanation for what I thought were missing credits. Sorry.

Thank You

[Mar 18, 2008 7:22:52 AM]

Former Member
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Re: re Credits

all three error logs are the same as this

Result Log

<core_client_version>5.10.28</core_client_version>
close

hope this helps

[Mar 18, 2008 7:38:47 AM]

Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline


Re: re Credits

All around the log looks extremely healthy.

As for the errors you may have had (but possibly belonging not to you), visit as requested before the Results Status page and click on the 'Error' to see the details. Possibly they were aborted by instruction from the server. The distribution times suggest so:

3. dddt0401l0687_ 100003_ 2-- In Progress 03/17/2008 22:44:03 03/20/2008 08:20:03 0.00 0.0 / 0.0
2. dddt0401l0687_ 100003_ 1-- Pending Validation 03/05/2008 22:44:19 03/07/2008 04:41:55 4.77 34.5 / 0.0
1. dddt0401l0687_ 100003_ 0-- Error 03/05/2008 22:39:43 03/18/2008 00:35:13 0.00 0.0 / 0.0

Copy 3 was send out before copy 1 was aborted.

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Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!

[Mar 18, 2008 7:47:16 AM]

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