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twilyth
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

Sek - that's interesting especially since I think all new IBM mainframes are CMOS based - rather than the older water cooled bipolar chips.

When I left data processing, IBM was planning on running almost any O/S under MVS - including Windows. I always though MVS was an incredibly good O/S - even though I never interacted with it directly.

I hooked up the kill-a-watt meter on the following machine

AMD 4800+ dual core overclocked by 10%
2 gig CAS 4 latency DDR2-800 RAM
4 SATA 7200rpm drives
a couple PCI cards like USB ports
graphics, network and audio are native to the ASUS m/b

It seems to run - under full CPU load and heavy drive access - at about 150 watts. So, I expect the other machines to come in under this number. I'll next try it on the other dual core machine
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[Aug 17, 2007 9:07:48 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

Jm - I'm really sorry about that.

twilyth, don't feel sorry. Anybody may be wrong sometimes. It's when it is too often that it becomes a problem, and that is not your case.

I think this discussion interests a lot of people and personally I sometimes ask myself if it would be sensible to replace my current machine with a faster one. In fact, to be honest, that would be more adding one faster machine since the current one shows no particular sign of needing a replacement, and obviously I would keep it running! smile With the various posts which have already followed ours I have got much useful practical real-life information and I appreciate it.

To make the case a little more complex one could add the dissipated heat matter. Where I live, most of the time it is positive or indifferent because the temperature is moderate or cold enough to make heating necessary, and my machine is currently in the coldest room, so that means little less heating needs. But for people living in warm areas more machines may also mean more air conditioning, and more energy to burn.

Cheers. Jean.
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[Aug 17, 2007 10:43:55 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
olympic
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

I just realized that the qx6700 is the 2.6ghz Intel quad core - you lucky dog.

If you feel like it , could you post your bios tweaks and temperature readings for the chip and m/b? Maybe in a new thread? I'd be very interested.


QX6700
Asus P5K Deluxe
Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500
D-Tek Fuzion water block
Swiftech MCP-655 pump
Dual 2x120mm radiators

BIOS settings:
CPU voltage: 1.45v
RAM voltage: 2.2v
FSB: 438MHz
multiplier: 8
FSB strap: 266MHz
RAM ratio: 4:5 547MHz (DDR2-1095)
Timings: 5-5-5-15

Intel Speed Step(EIST,C1E) is disabled, everything else was left at the stock/auto settings. With room temperature at 21c, my core temperatures read in the high 50's Celcius. Chipset temp is 30c.

Overclocking a quad core really puts a strain on the chipset and power mosfets, so when I got the board, I removed the heatpipe assembly and heatsinks, removed the stock thermal pads and applied Arctic Cooling MX1. I also have a couple fans blowing directly across the heatsinks so everything stays nice and cool. I've seen others report that the mosfets can reach over 100c with no active cooling. The new Asus P5K Premium supposedly addresses this issue by using higher quality components that create less heat.

The Intel P35 chipset really takes quad core overclocking to a whole new level. P965 was just "OK". Q6600 quad cores can now be bought for under $300, and if you can find a G0 "SLACR" stepping, 3.4-3.6GHz with air cooling seems to be the standard overclock. Highly recommended! 14,000 points/day on WCG is a nice bonus too! biggrin

Quad core power useage isn't as bad as it may look judging by my previous post. I have setup other barebones quad core machines with just a motherboard, RAM, CPU, 1 HDD and a few fans and they drew less than 200w each fully loaded running at 3.2GHz. Heat IS a problem though, with over 100w radiating from the cores, you need a top of the line air cooler or water cooling to keep it under control.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by olympic at Aug 17, 2007 4:47:08 PM]
[Aug 17, 2007 4:45:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

Thanks for all the info.

The first thing that jumps out is the cpu voltage. The max on that chip is around 1.3v right? You're more than 10% over the max. Even with liquid cooling I'd think there would be substantial heat stress.

I know what a mosfet is but I didn't know what role they played in m/b design. That might be over my head. I'm guessing that they're used for power regulation.

How do you get the chipset heat sinks off? Just pry them off with a blade? And the Arctic compound you mentioned - does that also act as an adhesive?

What is an fsb strap?

What is a G0 "SLACR" stepping processor? What do you look for in the specs?

Thanks for the tip about the P35 chipset. I have been looking at getting a 6600. I checked the P5K premium board at Newegg and it got some negative reviews. Is it a relatively new board? I like ASUS but I wouldn't want to get a board that's DOA. Of course I probably won't overclock to the same extent - 10 maybe 15 percent, so maybe I could get away with a cheaper board. The last m/b I got was a Gigabyte and i'm really happy with it.
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[Aug 17, 2007 5:28:47 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
olympic
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

Stock voltage is 1.325, so I'm 10% over. Still considered mild in the OC community. Some guys run 1.5v or more for daily use. Plus 1.45 is my BIOS setting, actual voltage is 1.41 because core voltage always droops under load. It's been running like this for many months, no problem. But your right about the heat, I would not be able to run this overclock with any air cooler. Even with water cooling I can hit 75c on a warm day.

You are correct about the Mosfets, they regulate power to the CPU. Due to the low voltage, high amperage they see, they get incredibly hot. I can't speak for all motherboards, but on the Asus, there are several plastic pins with springs that hold the heatsinks to the board. The pins have fishhook-like barbs on the end that expand to grab hold of the MB. You can see the barbs from the backside of the board.

Here's a nice trick I found for getting the pins out effortlessly. Take a clicker style ball point pen, retract the point and then wiggle the tip onto the pin barbs. They will squeeze together and the pin will pop right out. After all the pins are out the heatsink will fall off.

MX1 is just a thermal grease. It's non-conductive and has the consistency of clay. So it won't short anything out or run all over the place and it's good at filling larger gaps. It's great for applications like this but for the CPU I still use Arctic Silver 5.

FSB strap is a BIOS setting(not all boards have it). It has to do with the timings of the FSB. Lower strap=tighter timings and better performance, but also means less FSB overclocking and less RAM ratio options. The options in the P5K BIOS are 200,266,333. The auto setting is 333 but mine runs stable at 266 so I left it there.

SLACR is a revision or stepping of the Q6600. Intel recently made some changes that fixed some mionor bugs and reduced the power consumption by 10w. The result should mean lower temps and higher overclocks. From what I've seen it's true. Here's what you are looking for http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9929/dscf1769bs6.jpg Note the "SLACR" at the end of the product code. The older revisions will say "SL9UM". There are a few online retailers that will guarantee you the new revision, or you can walk into a store and choose it yourself. If you can't find one then don't worry, the older ones will OC 10-15% too easily.

I installed one of these in a friends rig, it runs at 3.2GHz 1.35v and core temperature is 50c with a high end air cooler. It could have went higher but the motherboard was not willing. I tested it in my own rig and got 3.6GHz easy.

I read the P5K premium reviews on newegg and I'm not sure what to think. 2 bad reviews isn't the end of the world though, I'm sure they sold hundreds more without issue. It's the same board as the Deluxe, just a few revisions in the power delivery area.

If you're just shooting for 3Ghz, then a cheaper board will suffice. But stick with a P35 chipset if possible. The Asus P5K and Gigabyte DS3R come to mind and there are many others.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by olympic at Aug 18, 2007 12:55:39 AM]
[Aug 18, 2007 12:54:52 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

Wow! That was excellent. There have been many times that I wanted to learn more about a m/b's internals but couldn't get the information. Like with memory timings. My fastest machine - at the moment - has DDR2-800 Patriot sticks with 4-4-4-12 timings, but even the patriot web site doesn't tell you which bios parameters each number applied to. You really have to put in the time to develop that level of expertise. I've done some simple oc'ing but always shied away when it got to changing voltages or getting really deep into the bios.

In the future, maybe you wouldn't mind if I picked your brains. You can email me if you don't mind or when the time comes I can just post a thread to the chat-room.

On my AMD 4800+ machine I have a Zalman CNPS9500 heatsink/fan with arctic silver thermal paste, but honestly it's wasted since I haven't been able to manually tweak the bios. I'm using what ASUS calls the AI overclocking function which doesn't give me much extra performance.

I'm still batting around the idea of a new 6600 but just the chip and 4 gig of 1066 memory will be at least $600. So a slightly more than bare bones system will be at least a grand. With the financial markets jumping around like a chihuahua on crack, I haven't been feeling too secure. But I know that eventually the techno-lust will have it's way - especially since I hit Newegg's web site at least once a day. I'm going to take good look at the Gigabyte m/b you mentioned and look for the P35 chipset.

Out of curiosity, are you an electronics guy by profession or just an astute hobbyist?
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[Aug 18, 2007 2:21:02 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
olympic
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

I own a taxi company. laughing Computers, overclocking and grid computing is just a hobby and passion of mine. If you need help with something, just hit me up directly. olympic.trans at sasktel.net
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[Aug 18, 2007 5:03:46 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: Grid computing vs energy conservation

Cool - once I put together a parts list for the new machine I'll send it to you. I might decide to wait for the AMD quad core chips but I'm leaning in the opposite direction right now.

Thanks.
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