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nepkarel
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Scientific content patentable?

I would like to know whether scientists who use data from the grid can file patents from their research?

I have looked very hard, but I have not seen any remarks about this, as there is very little remarks at all about what happens with the data generated with the grid.

If I would find out this were to be true I would stop running the grid immediately. I am not 'sharing' my CPU time to help others get rich.

The only exception would be if the resources generated by patents would come directly back to the grid community.

I appoligize if my question has been asked before.
[Jan 11, 2005 4:59:09 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Scientific content patentable?

nepkarel --

The RFP (Request for Proposal) for WCG projects requires that the results obtained be published openly. The current project is more pure science in nature; that is to say it is studying the behavior of protien folding and not attempting to come up with a patentable product such as a medication, so your concerns are probably unfounded. I would expect that subsequent to the publication of the results, there will be scientists who will perform further research based on insights obtained from these openly published results. This further research may result in patentable material such as medications which might cure cancer, HIV, or many other diseases. You should recognize that this further research is beyond the scope of the project at hand. I sincerely hope that you will continue to support the WCG. Mankind needs this fundamental research to be completed and nobody is going to "get rich" directly from the results we are all helping to produce.
[Jan 11, 2005 5:34:44 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nepkarel
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Re: Scientific content patentable?

@ Dave Bell:

My guess was that the current project is fairly fundamental. I missed the open publication requirement. That's a good start. However, patents are also considered open publications.

As a scientist, I do understand that subsequent research may lead to patents, and am not worried about that. That's simply the progress of sience.

I was worried though that some findings that might be patentable and most institutions these days are fairly agressive in that, which is logical with all the budgetary challenges they face, when greedy post-docs like me want better and better pay wink

However, I'd like to see that the world grid not only requires open publication of the results, but also explicitely says something about not patenting data retrieved from the grid. It may not be neccesary for the current project, but it might be for future projects. I like the idealism of sharing unused CPU time, but I would also very much like to see good and strong garantees that the acquired knowledge is freely available to the public once it's retrieved.

On the whole, I would like to see more information about the science and what happens with the results. I realize that this is challenging since many participants are not scientists, but I believe many are.
[Jan 11, 2005 6:04:27 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Scientific content patentable?

nepkarel --

I would recommend that you read http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/files/rfp.pdf which goes further to explain the position of the WCG board. In it is the following statement, "World Community Grid is designed as a resource for research done with a philanthropic or humanitarian purpose and will be available only to projects conducted for public and not-for-profit purposes." I hope this will be sufficient to alleviate any suspicions you might have and keep you on board.

Regards,
[Jan 11, 2005 8:04:08 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nepkarel
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Re: Scientific content patentable?

@ Dave: don't worry too much about keeping on board, I will. It's just that I would like to make sure that all data is as accessable for everyone as participation is. The file you provided seems to make that very clear. That is reassuring.

The smallpox example is a good example of what I am aiming at. It is good that the grid is used to identify 45 smallpox treament candidates. Presumably, there is only one (maybe two or three) that qualify to be transformed to a decent medicine.

My point is that if a pharmceutical company takes the 45 and figures out which one is the best one, it should be made sure that that company does not block of testing of that specific drug by others.

I realize that narrowing down from 45 to 1 costs (a lot of) money and do not want to deprive a company from earning that investment back.

However, the one drug should in no way become completely blocked of to others, since without the initial calculation from infinite to 45, the company would have never been able to start their research.

I am making this point since I have a bad experience with a (chemical) product that was (rightfully) protected by a patent. My group found a totally new application for this product, but the patent holder would only sell us the product under the condition that ALL possible inventions and applications would be in THEIR FULL OWNERSHIP, i.e. we could not patent our application. Not even with shared ownership, which seemed reasonable to us (after all, we did not mind their patent on their initial product).

In the end we published the application, but unfortunately, this (handy) application will never become widespread, since the manufacturer simply will not even allow 'our' application on a wide spread scale. They'll only sell one unit per customer, and assume that if you need more, you've found something patentable and they want all profit from that.

In the end, I don't care much about the money (it woudn't have been that much anyway), but it does frustrate me that the science community can not benefit from this handy trick we figured out.

I would not like to see that research based on results from the grid get 'grid locked' (sorry for the bad word joke) by obnoxious companies that take the initial grid work for granted or "free imput".

I realize this is difficult to arrange, but that's what lawyers are for wink
[Jan 11, 2005 8:34:46 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Scientific content patentable?

nepkarel --

I can see why you have your concerns and agree that the results should be "grid-locked" (I like your newly coined term -- LOL). I am also very happy to hear that you will be staying with us. I encourage you to participate in our forums too. With your insights as a scientist, maybe you can help to keep ourselves better informed in the forums.

Might I also extend you an invitation to participate with a team. Of course, I would recommend the one I am a member of, "My Online Team," but there are several others out there to choose from. I have seen our team described as being made up of nerds (in an affectionate, positive manner) and, I guess, we really are, but we have fun together and have a web site you might enjoy visiting to see what makes us tick. Just click the links in my signature line below.

Again, Best Regards,
[Jan 11, 2005 9:20:13 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nepkarel
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Re: Scientific content patentable?

@ Dave:

Thanks for the invite, but I will politely decline. I have enough other sources of distraction on the web to keep me too busy.

I'll keep an occasional eye on the fora here, but they seem to be mostly technical and quite frankly, I couldn't care less. I care a bit about the idealism of the shared grid, but am very happy doing my thing on my own. Maybe I'll start my own little group one day.

The only technical improvement I want in the grid is a CPU usage cap to reduce the zooming of the fan in my poor little overheating labtop. It seems more people have asked for this, so I guess it'll show up one day.
[Jan 13, 2005 7:10:21 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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