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twilyth
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

@Scribe - that is extremely insightful, thorough and informative. Thank you.

I do some trading and often watch CNBC. Mobius capital sounds very familiar. I'll see what I can find on them. I'm also planning to see what kind of public financial info might be available on UD. They're not publicly traded, but I know that info still has to be available - the only issue is how much will it cost.

It's interesting that UD has attracted venture capital since I had always seen them as a mature enterprise. I normally think of venture capital in connection with companies that have little or no track record or established public companies looking to go private. But VC is way out of my league so it's not something I follow.

Do you really think that UD saved that much on dumping Grid? I know running a data center is an expensive proposition, but my impression was that Grid just piggie-backed on UD normal operations. So, the only costs involved were variable or incremental. UD was still locked into whatever fixed costs they had by virtue of their day job. Maybe that wasn't the case - especially if your talking about payroll cuts. In any event, the 2-day notice is still very puzzling.

I think you're right about this being the preface to something dramatic - a sale, merger, etc. If so, something should hit the news in due course. Maybe then things will come into focus. Until then, please continue to share whatever info you can. Lots of former grid members are interested even if we have moved on and found a new home here.
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[May 4, 2007 2:43:56 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

I do not think your statement "....but my impression was that Grid just piggie-backed on UD normal operations." could be all that valid as we know that the equipment that Grid was running on was constantly fauiling, causeing stats and connection problems at regular intervals. New servers etc were purchased, supposedly to run Grid on, but a few of us suspected that it got used elsewhere. For Grid to continure it certainly would have meant new hardare and software so the easiest would be to drop the lot......which it looks like they did!
[May 4, 2007 2:50:57 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
USAFA 82
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

Good info, Scribe. Thanks smile
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[May 4, 2007 3:47:49 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

I do not think your statement "....but my impression was that Grid just piggie-backed on UD normal operations." could be all that valid as we know that the equipment that Grid was running on was constantly fauiling, causeing stats and connection problems at regular intervals. New servers etc were purchased, supposedly to run Grid on, but a few of us suspected that it got used elsewhere. For Grid to continure it certainly would have meant new hardare and software so the easiest would be to drop the lot......which it looks like they did!

I do understand that there appears to have been no new investment in equipment for Grid.org - at least none that was actually used to that purpose. What I mean is that aside from having a few extra servers set up for us, they still had to maintain a datacenter, communications network and equipment, facilities, personnel, etc. No doubt if Grid had continued indefinitely it would have required some investment, but I think that they also could have let grid hobble on as it had been doing for a lot longer than 2 days without incurring any major expense. I don't know this for a fact but it seems a reasonable inference. For example if servers were failing and had to be replaced, that could be an explanation. If there were several people working full time on Grid and they were needed immediately for other projects, that too would make sense. But personally I don't know that any considerations like those were involved. At this point I don't have any reason to belief that they were.

As far as Mobius being the culprit - it looks like they've been involved with UD since at least 2005. I don't see why they would be cracking down later rather than sooner. See http://www.mobiusvc.com/pages.php?pn=overview...s&id=2449&id=2449

On a different topic - I just got an email from the Texas secretary of state. They don't keep financial information on private companies but they did send me a list of UD's management. The names don't mean anything to me - except a couple mentioned in Scribe's post - but maybe they ring a bell for someone else. I've listed them at the end.

I also found out that Hoover's has a report available on UD but it costs $100 and I probably wouldn't be able to legally reprint it here even if I got it. I might go for it anyway though. I'll see.

Here's the list

Last Update - March 7, 2007 (for all entries)
Address - 9737 GREAT HILLS TRAIL, SUITE 300, AUSTIN , TX 78759 USA (for all entries)

Name - Title

JOHN HIME - DIRECTOR

JIKKU VENKAT - CTO

JACK ANGELO - VICE PRESIDENT

ERIC HARSLEM - DIRECTOR

ED HUBBARD - DIRECTOR

ED HUBBARD - SECRETARY

SETH LEVINE - DIRECTOR

TOM WASSERMAN - DIRECTOR

AARON CHEATAM - DIRECTOR

CHARLES BEN ROUSE - DIRECTOR

CHARLES BEN ROUSE - CEO
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[May 4, 2007 3:48:07 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

For the past couple of years there has only ever been one person, part time, working on Grid org, that was one of our big beefs, we could never get decent support when the system failed. It was out for about 5 days once 'cos the guy was on vacation....so there was little saving in manpower when it ended
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at May 4, 2007 4:22:19 PM]
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Mysteron347
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Re: History of the Grorg - Finale

It's a matter of principle.

Grid/UD's claim "Grid.org has successfully completed its mission: To evangelize the benefits (and demonstrate the viability and security) of large-scale Internet-based grid computing" is, put simply, a bare-faced lie.

IF that was the mission, that it had been completed some time ago. This was NOT their mission.

From the information published in this thread, it seems obvious that it was simply a withdrawal of funding and support, for whatever reason. Had the reason been published as "inability to secure further funding" that could be accepted.

The next step was Oxford's response. Since Oxford was "surprised" at the closure, it was obviously unplanned and had not been communicated by UD.

BUT - Oxford has simply played little Sir Echo of UD's position, possibly because they haven't got hold of the recent results and don't want to offend UD.

Supporting an obvious untruth - and all that had to be done was to omit "finally came to a close" which implies some sort of planning and substitute "was closed (down)" which removes the implication - and publishing a pageful of waffle makes me extremely wary of being engaged on any future Oxford project. We're evidently not going to get the truth.

They have given no guidance on "what now?" - future plans, conversion to WCG - "seeking options for the next phase" in diplome (the language of diplomacy) if you will. Instead, we have the paragraphs following " Our heartfelt thanks to everyone" - confusing the issue by putting the entire project into the present tense without actually showing people how they can continue to be or become involved.

There I was believing that Universities were supposed to cure confusion - not create it.
[May 5, 2007 5:06:32 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: History of the Grorg - Finale

There I was believing that Universities were supposed to cure confusion - not create it.
You must be overlooking the fact that most of them run law schools! biggrin
[May 5, 2007 12:01:43 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: History of the Grorg - Finale

There I was believing that Universities were supposed to cure confusion - not create it.

You can't even trust the squints anymore.
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Sekerob
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

For posterity, saw this at the team forum and copied here in case the article is temporary. Underlined a few bits.
http://www.gridtoday.com/grid/1552463.html

After commenting last week on the shutdown of Grid.org, United Devices' altruistic site featuring various volunteer projects, I received an anonymous e-mail alerting me that there was more to the site's shutdown than meets the eye. This mysterious messenger suggested that UD had laid off 90 percent of its staff and that Grid.org, like those employees, was simply a casualty of UD running out of money. Upon further investigation -- a phone call with UD president Ben Rouse -- it turns out my "Deep Throat" was right ... sort of. At the least, he wasn't entirely off-base.

As it turns out, UD did eliminate a significant portion of its sales staff (around half of it), as well some folks in the marketing and technical departments. However, these "strategic changes," as Rouse calls them, were not a matter of running out of money, but rather a move to focus the company's resources around its push toward selling "application-centric virtualization" and datacenter solutions. The sales force, he said, had been comprised of people with HPC backgrounds, and that just isn't the focus around UD anymore. "Honestly, we don't need a lot of marketing or pure sales support to continue to grow our HPC revenues," said Rouse. "If anyone is out there in R&D land and is considering implementing a grid, they find us." UD is currently looking to fill this void with veterans in the field of selling to telcos and managed services providers, as well as with in-house technical experts in domain-specific areas, such as SAP applications.

While this explanation certainly makes sense from a business standpoint, there's always something a little disconcerting about seeing people lose their jobs, whatever the reason. With this in mind, I would just like to wish everyone affected by this decision the best of luck in whatever they do next. Although hardly definitive in nature, my dealings with UD have always been amicable, and I'm sure cutting loose a large number of employees wasn't on the top of anyone's list.

The shutdown of Grid.org, Rouse explained, was just another part of this reorganization -- although I'll bet it was a far easier decision to make. Maintaining the site was far from resource-intensive, he said, requiring a whopping one-quarter of a systems administrator, but the resources required to find good projects, build applications, etc., did begin to add up. Quite frankly, commented Rouse, Grid.org was never intended as a revenue stream, but rather as an opportunity to showcase the power of large-scale distributed computing -- which it undoubtedly did. With this in mind, it was decided to cease operations instead of spending time and money searching for the next project. Rouse said, and I concur, that those interested in volunteering their computers' resources are better off looking to IBM, for example, who, resource-wise, is in a far better position to handle this kind of an effort.

Market-wise, however, the story is of another stalwart grid vendor moving its focus away from HPC and into the datacenter. In 2006, Rouse said, the company escaped its "life sciences pigeonhole" and saw HPC revenue spread evenly (at 20 percent apiece) across the life sciences, telco, manufacturing, and oil and gas verticals, with an additional 20 percent spread across a variety of others. More notably, though, was that HPC revenues comprised less than two-thirds of the company's revenue, with the rest coming from datacenter customers. Ninety percent of that datacenter-driven revenue, Rouse said, was on the managed services side of things, which is why UD is now "maniacally focused" along this front. Driven by managed services sales, Rouse said UD expects more than 50 percent of its 2007 revenue to come from datacenter solutions.

The company's product portfolio mirrors this datacenter focus, with HPC being just one of three solutions sets, the others being "Data Center Virtualization" and "Managed Services." Each one of the solutions available under these headings, said Rouse, is based on the Grid MP framework and features a customizable combination of at least one more of UD's products -- Synergy, Insight, Reliance and Affinity -- the latter two of which are designed specifically for the datacenter.

However, like DataSynapse and Platform, United Devices, Rouse said, doesn't consider this so much as a new focus as much as it does a natural evolution. The inherent scheduling prowess of the grid architecture is well-suited to tackling datacenter issues, especially those involving virtualization. These three vendors in particular, he added, are at a distinct advantage in this market because of their well-established user bases, many of whom would love to bring the reliability of their HPC systems to bear on business-critical applications. The aforementioned companies, said Rouse, have been evolving along these lines for two years, and the path is well-documented in product announcements and partnerships. "I don't think this should come as a surprise to anybody," Rouse stated.

So, there you have it: Not only the real story behind the demise of Grid.org, but, more importantly, a look into what this migration into the datacenter means for traditional grid computing vendors. It's not always pretty, and it doesn't mean HPC users will be left in the dust, but it does mean that priorities and solutions will shift, and the definition of grid computing -- whatever that might be -- will never be the same. I've said before that the technologies being touted by smaller companies like GigaSpaces and Appistry aren't your father's grid computing, and now, it seems, even the "fathers" in this scenario are trying to change that old-style perception, as well.

Moving onto this week's issue, I first and foremost need to point to my interview with Charlie Catlett, former TeraGrid director and now CIO of Argonne National Laboratory. Charlie shared many insights into the TeraGrid project, including, interestingly enough, that his stepping aside was not only the right move for him, but for the project as whole as it moves toward a more distributed, democratic leadership model. Essentially, it's a lot of good insights from a man with plenty of experience across the grid and general HPC communities.

I also would suggest reading the rest of the Special Features section, which includes a firsthand explanation of Microsoft's SecPAL project, a look at the future of enterprise grid and the announcement of Sun's making Network.com available globally. Beyond that, other articles of interest might include: "Paremus, QuIC Deliver Distributed Analytics Solution," "Univa Launches Open Source Cluster Solution," "Callidus Makes On-Demand Solution Available in EMEA," "OASIS Forms WS-Federation Committee" and "SDSC Selects Brocade SAN Solutions."

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Comments about GRIDtoday are welcomed and encouraged. Write to me, Derrick Harris, at editor@gridtoday.com.

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[May 15, 2007 5:27:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: History of the Grorg - what happened?

Thank you so much for the article and info. I didn't even know there was such a publication.

The shift in focus explains a lot, although to be honest, I would appreciate it if someone could post a couple links explaining exactly what is meant by "data center virutualization". Is this some hybrid of a data grid and a computing grid? Or is it just a matter of letting apps run wherever they like without having individual servers dedicated to specific apps?

Anyway, I'd be more inclined to believe the anonymous source than Rouse. I've seen enough CEO interviews on CNBC to know that these weasels never tell it like it is. I mean damn, manipulating the facts is the first line in their job description. For example, how do you develope new porducts while cutting your work force? Sure you can cut out a lot of the "dead wood" but to get anything done don't you need to replace them - even if its with outsourced personnel or cheaper, younger workers?

The one group of people that do love to see drastic cost cutting however are investors. Remember many centuries ago after the break up of ATT when they were laying people off almost every month. With every layoff, their stock price went up. Commentators started joking that the share price would approach infinitity if they reduced the labor force to zero.

My bet would be that UD needs cash. To sell yourself to investors you have to cut costs. Your revenues don't change - at least not in the short run - but you LOOK as if you're more profitable than you really are. Even better, year over year profit and net income figure comparisons look amazing. Oddly enough, even sophisticated investors still fall for this shell game.

If they were in fact looking for an immediate infusion of cash, that would explain why they needed to clean house quickly.

The line about UD looking for new projects was also interesting. It implies that they didn't have any for some period of time before they shut down. If so, we were just spinning our wheels running the ud agent - just as many had suggested.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a legal component to this. Technically our work at Grorg was a charitable donation. However these donations were made based on certain representaions - specifically that we were doing something more useful than just running a screen saver. If that representation was knowingly false, and the odds of that are looking better all the time, then continuing to accept the donations - even if they were of no immediate value to UD - would probably constitute fraud. And given the fact that Grorg was a national, not to mention global, endeavor, it would be ripe for a class action suit.

If that is what happened and UD is laying people off, I think we might get some evidence of that sooner rather than later.
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[May 15, 2007 8:18:26 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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