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Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

In response to my request for endorsement or other assistance from the U.S. Dept. of Education, Deputy Director Ray Simon (2nd in command) sent me an email which indicates that he has received some clearly inaccurate information from his staff or others who conducted research for him; I am posting that portion of the email that Raymond sent to me, below. Part of that misinformation is no doubt based on a news report about WCG at this link. The inaccurate portion of that article is where it states: "the World Community Grid, an IBM-supported network that senses when private computers are sitting idle, then taps the machines to perform complicated calculations ordinarily performed on expensive supercomputers". Because it states that the 'network' senses when computers are idle, rather than the agent software that the computer is running, it leads one to the logical conclusion expressed in the research opinion provided to Raymond -- "that being always on the internet with an open link to an outside server could open up a computer to hackers or inadvertently support spyware and virus distribution and other nefarious activities." That, of course, is not true as I have ever understood it; rather, a user's computer is linked to another computer ONLY when it is uploading results or downloading a new task, and there is NO WAY for another computer to couple with a user's computer on its own initiative, ... and certainly no 'open connection' is ever maintained. I'd appreciate any professional resource that can confirm and/or document that fact so that I can reply to Raymond. Here is the advice that Raymond received:

****** Excerpt from his email to me ******
Essentially grid computing is a way to link together multiple computers to work on a single large computing task - like running billions of permutations a second of a formula to look for a match, or complex simulations. Typically this involves extremely large tasks that historically required massive supercomputers to do. Astrophysics, weather and medicine are some common areas, and NASA Energy and DOD are each engaged in grid computing.

Because of the increased power and relatively low cost of today's personal computers, it is now possible to link them together to mirror the computing power of these large and costly supercomputers.

Until recently this was done only in academic or research settings, but in the last year or so an increasing number of projects have reached out to schools and the general public to enable the use of the vast amount of idle computer time that is available on these machines. In this scenario, individuals or in some limited cases institutions like schools sign up with a researcher and agree to allow software to run on their machines when they are otherwise idle.

(Follow this link to see a recent story on grid computing in schools and colleges - http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/showStory.cfm?ArticleID=6588).

As you might imagine, this can provide a boon to the researcher, but it could also be abused by unscrupulous individuals. The down side is that being always on the internet with an open link to an outside server could open up a computer to hackers or inadvertently support spyware and virus distribution and other nefarious activities.

As such, I think grid computing is certainly something that schools could make students aware of through a computer science or technology class, but hardly something that, at this point, deserves to be part of the general curriculum. It may also be something they could engage in on a limited basis with their local university for example where trust is already established.

That being said, as technology develops and computer security evolves public participation in grid computing could one day approach the impact that your friend envisions. I would expect we are still several years from that point however.

As far as ED or state interest, I think we are in a 'wait and see' mode and can best benefit by keeping abreast of the results and evolution of this type of computing in the other government agencies mentioned above.
****** End of excerpt from email to me ******

Getting some degree of endorsement or other assistance from the U.S. Dept. of Education would have propelled 'Project 2plus2is4 ' more than any of us probably realize or can appreciate; instead of getting some national exposure and a warm reception in many states based on such an endorsement, it will now be a long hard struggle from state to state. But I am going to try to persuade Raymond to take another look at this. Any advice or suggestions will be appreciated. Meanwhile, I am persisting in my attempts at the state level here in Arkansas.

In a nutshell, it is precisely this type of suspicion caused by misinformation that we see as an obstacle with the U.S. Dept of Education that is also the cause of much of our recruitment problems. Massive education is the obvious solution. If you haven't investigated my project, please do so.

Thanks.

Bill Velek
[Dec 19, 2006 3:51:39 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
David Autumns
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Re: Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

Hi Bill

It's all down to semantics and a journalists interpretation of what we do and how we do it.

It's the operating systems that detect the idle time not the agent. The wcg agent simply jumps in when the system idle task would normally be running (i.e. when your CPU would normally be twiddling it's thumbs)

as for permanent connection that's a no. Only when uploading and downloading a work unit is connection to IBM made...however most PC's are permanently connected to the internet today through the use of always on broadband connections which yes opens up the possibility of hackers but this would be the situation with or without the wcg and we all (well any self respecting PC owner) protect ourselves from such intrusion.


I've had PC's connected and running grid computing tasks for a total of over 14 years now with absolutely no security issues whatsoever - that's zip, zilch and didly squat.

Bill send him my way I'll put him straight smile

Dave
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[Dec 19, 2006 5:25:48 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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shock Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

That letter is a litany of misconceptions! d oh
Until recently this was done only in academic or research settings, but in the last year or so

I started crunching for UD thinking 7 April, 2001...
This guy just needs some basic facts to get it right....
Like; wink "I know oneguy that has been crunching 5 1/2 years
without any security issues what so ever!" smile
[Dec 19, 2006 1:46:35 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

It was rather obvious that the author of the EMAIL had limited knowledge of WCG and Grid computing in general. With the overall tone being he wasnt interested in learning anymore and would not chance putting agents in computers.

So its the way it is. WCG is a volunteer effort and anybody uncomfortable with it should not participate. Effort should go into spreading the word to everyone you can. Trying to get a horse to drink water after leading him to it is always more trouble than its worth.

Well have a nice day everyone exciting to see new projects coming on board.
[Dec 20, 2006 1:11:17 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

It was rather obvious that the author of the EMAIL had limited knowledge of WCG and Grid computing in general. With the overall tone being he wasnt interested in learning anymore and would not chance putting agents in computers


Same problem in the corporate world, where I have attempted to convince 3 companies now to participate. The first question is a variant on "what's in it for me/us?" When I get through that, even with the credentials of the other participants, the next objection is "isn't that dangerous?" and here is the fundamental problem:

*Management personnel aren't qualified to judge when something is good and when it is harmful

That leads to a "cover your a**" mentality which states that anything not directly required (read: ordered and approved by the board, CEO, president, guy in charge) is turned down on the flimsiest excuses, which one could be read to mean the person is only looking out for their own bonus, and the rest of the world can go to (pick your destination, Nelsoc)

How does one make progress in the face of this?
[Dec 21, 2006 2:20:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
David Autumns
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Re: Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

Fred B and Bill the answer is you just keep going doing what you do

Check out this old thread and note the date on it

https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=788

sadly the "Security Experts" rule the world of the IT dept but at least with the company I'm with at the mo the laptop I use is running WCG through BOINC with official sanction - sadly not (yet) the rest of the company. We'll get there one PC at a time

dave
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[Dec 21, 2006 4:12:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

sadly the "Security Experts" rule the world of the IT dept


And condescending comments from pompous "experts" like Graham Cluely don't help either.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Dec 21, 2006 4:29:20 PM]
[Dec 21, 2006 4:28:30 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
David Autumns
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Re: Some misinformation about WCG and the setback it could cause

Hi esoteric17

bizarre as it may seem I think I fall into this category of those who are stopped via the internet I thought it just used ports 443 and 80 but the work wan knows it's boinc. My solution is simple download WU's in the morning with the laptop connected to the Internet at home take it to work crunch all day but can't upload because the internet is a "dangerous" place bring same laptop home connect to the internet with the same laptop and the same "dangerous" internet and upload those crunched WU and download a new batch for tomorrow.

Has the world of IT at work fallen apart due to my dabbling with the dreaded Internet? Has a dreaded virus been introduced as a result of my actions?

I think not.

The lengths the developers go to to maintain security of grid apps is second to none as cast iron accurate results are the order of the day. As I say above I have about 14 years worth in the bag without one single affect on any PC involved due to grid computing

Sadly this can't be said for most of the rest of the software which runs on a PC but they let us use that within the corporate environment thinking

It's a funny old world that some days just makes you want to cry
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[Dec 22, 2006 2:16:07 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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