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SusanZennario

Cherry Bing

Re: Interesting Question
dshepard wrote:I'm going to try not to say anything to offend anyone (and I don't usually chime in to such debates), but I just wanted to say that I think it's a very interesting question to raise. Pro-life people fight to save the babies, but if that person ends up gay, they fight against them more. I think people should just mind their own business and quit trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives. It's their lives, not yours...stop being so judgemental! The fact that these issues then become political is ridiculous. There are so many more problems in this world that they should be focusing on. And I don't think babies are sinful...if a baby throws a "tantrum" it's because he hasn't learned yet how to effectively communicate and may cry at his frustrations.


I think we should all follow your lead! If people would butt out and concern themselves only with those issues that are directly in their control we would all be much happier. What gets me is those bashers who may not even know personally a gay person, or a person who chose to have an abortion for whatever reason, yet there they are throwing judgment. I personally am Pro Choice. Abortion would never be an option for myself (and fortunately I am WAY past the point of ever having to worry about that as most of my girl parts have been sick and removed!) and I would never encourage it for my own daughter, however there are times when I feel it is ok. Rape and health of my daughter are two instances in which I believe my daughter and ALL women should have a choice. That said, I disagree with those who seem to use abortion as a way out because they were too stupid to have safe sex. Honestly, and again this is just my opinion, but in this day and age when birth control is regularly advertised on the TV, and readily available with minimal effort, there is no excuse for an unwanted pregnancy other than rape.

The Gay issue is another whole thing. I AM a Christian and I believe in equal rights for ALL people, all races, lifestyles, genetics, ALL PEOPLE. It may state in the bible somewhere that being gay is a sin, however on judgment day doesn't God forgive your sins if you ask for forgiveness and accept the Lord? Again, my own experiences and opinion, but I believe that being Gay can be either through genetics OR adopted by CHOICE. I have seen with my own eyes it happen both ways. I have a very good friend from high school who after 25 years as a straight man has chosen to live as a gay man. He CHOSE it...he will tell you that. Now on the other hand, my own nephew was gay from the day he was born. It was very obvious...all growing up. When my son who is 2 months younger than my nephew, was asking for Tonka trucks and army guys for Christmas, he was asking for dressup outfits and bakeware. YES, bakeware. And not just ANY bakeware...it had to be pink. We all thought it was cute but in the back of my mind I always wondered. Well fast forward to high school and my nephew has announced to us that he is, in fact, gay. He is tortured every day by this. He is shunned at school and beaten up because of this. How could anyone say he CHOSE this path? At the point in ALL teenagers lives when they are trying to find their way in this crazy world of ours, why would he choose the one path that was sure to lead only to more pain, less acceptance, no rights, etc.

Now don't get me wrong...I don't actively fight for Gay rights. But when push comes to shove and I am asked to vote, I will, again FOR EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Stepping down now....
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Susan Zennario - NJ
Mommy of Johnny (20), Matt (14) and Susie (12)
My Blog - Paper Daisy Dreams
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dshepard

Cherry Bing

Re: Interesting Question
Well said Susan. It is crazy to me that people who aren't gay can say whether it's a choice or genetics...they've never been in that situation! And while I don't actively, stand on my soapbox and fight, I feel passionately about everyone's right to live their lives the way they want. And it's sad that there is so much pain for these people as they try to do that.
Danna :)

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kcatt79

Sweet Cherry Pie

Re: Interesting Question
dshepard wrote:
kcatt79 wrote: It cracks me up that everyone thinks that seperation of church and state means that there is not allowed to be any religion in the government.


The whole point of this is so that no one religion would be pushed on everyone else...like it had been in Europe. So putting your religion in and forcing others to follow it is a direct violation of this. Not everyone believes in the same things as you and it is their right to believe what they want. Pushing your religion on others is the main way to judge people, tell them how to live their lives and is offensive that everyone has to live up to your standards.





Dont ask a loaded question that will lead to religious beliefs if you dont want to hear others views. Just like everyone else can say what they want, so can I. Everyone on here is pushing their view.

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dshepard

Cherry Bing

Re: Interesting Question
I didn't ask the question...I merely weighed in on it.
Danna :)

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kcatt79

Sweet Cherry Pie

Re: Interesting Question
dshepard wrote:I didn't ask the question...I merely weighed in on it.


I know, Im jsut saying that in general. I know a lot of people dont agree with me, and thats fine, just saying my beliefs. I will go on record to say, I do uphold the rights of ALL people to not be abused, persecuted, or treated meanly for any reason! I dont care race, gender, sexual issues, there is not reason for abuse.

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Ayla

Cherry Addict

Re: Interesting Question
candykane wrote:The Bible says that killing is a sin and so is being Gay~
The right to live and the right to sin is not the same.

God gave us life. He did not give us the right to sin.



That is why he sent his Son, to save us from our sins.
The Bible does not use the word gay, it refers to it being wrong for man to share seed with a man....no where is a woman loving a woman mentioned, much less forbidden. Just a thought.
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megamay

Cherry Cola

Re: Interesting Question
kcatt79 wrote:
dshepard wrote:
kcatt79 wrote: It cracks me up that everyone thinks that seperation of church and state means that there is not allowed to be any religion in the government.


The whole point of this is so that no one religion would be pushed on everyone else...like it had been in Europe. So putting your religion in and forcing others to follow it is a direct violation of this. Not everyone believes in the same things as you and it is their right to believe what they want. Pushing your religion on others is the main way to judge people, tell them how to live their lives and is offensive that everyone has to live up to your standards.





Dont ask a loaded question that will lead to religious beliefs if you dont want to hear others views. Just like everyone else can say what they want, so can I. Everyone on here is pushing their view.

I think that the other poster meant that putting one religion, ANY, religion into law is forcing that religion's standards onto everyone. I don't think she was attacking your beliefs or your arguments specifically. Rather, I think she was using 'your' to mean any beliefs or standards that are implicit in laws. By saying that you think being Gay is sinning, that is a judgement, that is part of your religion. Outlawing Gay marriage is an implicit statement by the government that they agree with that very Christian declaration against homosexuality. but not everyone in this country is Christian. And even those who are Christian, some still don't agree that there is anything wrong with homosexuality.

I don't think homosexuality is a sin, in fact I don't believe in sin. I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality, so why should it be illegal? See what I mean? We have different opinions, and that's fine. But when you make opinion into law, that's when there is a problem.

Someone who lives a homosexual life doesn't cause harm to, or in any way infringe on your rights to believe they are sinning. Making gay marriage legal doesn't mean that you, or anyone else, has to agree with it, just that is a person's right to choose how they live their lives and what they do in their own bedroom. On the other hand, making it illegal DEFINITELY infringes on a gay person's rights to live their lives how they see fit, and all that because SOME people in this county proscribe to a certain religion that deems that lifestyle inappropriate.

That is how it infringes on the separation of church and state. and to me it seems like a no brainer - one side of the debate wants to limit individual freedoms and the other side just wants to be allowed to live their lives like everyone else.

now abortion - THAT gets complicated and Im not even going to go there.
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kcatt79

Sweet Cherry Pie

Re: Interesting Question
Ayla wrote:
candykane wrote:The Bible says that killing is a sin and so is being Gay~
The right to live and the right to sin is not the same.

God gave us life. He did not give us the right to sin.



That is why he sent his Son, to save us from our sins.
The Bible does not use the word gay, it refers to it being wrong for man to share seed with a man....no where is a woman loving a woman mentioned, much less forbidden. Just a thought.





It refers to homosexuality.

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Shadywolfe

Cherry Blossom

Re: Interesting Question
this thread is ugly.. jmo though :bluewaiting:
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Ayla

Cherry Addict

Re: Interesting Question
kcatt79 wrote:
Ayla wrote:
candykane wrote:The Bible says that killing is a sin and so is being Gay~
The right to live and the right to sin is not the same.

God gave us life. He did not give us the right to sin.



That is why he sent his Son, to save us from our sins.
The Bible does not use the word gay, it refers to it being wrong for man to share seed with a man....no where is a woman loving a woman mentioned, much less forbidden. Just a thought.





It refers to homosexuality.
In the English translation, yes. But the original language of the bible refers to sharing of seed. I used to date a Bible theologian.
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JeanG

Cherry Cola

Re: Interesting Question
Thank you to all who have weighed in so far. I think sharing these things is the way to understanding each other better and I'm not as good as putting my thoughts into words as some of you are. I appreciate all of the views.
I wonder, sometimes, if we ever give God a headache.
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lilkoala3

Bowl Full of Cherries

Re: Interesting Question
You know, I am really surprised that so many of you are pro-choice. I am pro-choice (I'm sure no one is surprised there).


I think all of the arguments on both sides have been stated. My sister is lesbian, and I cannot contemplate that anyone could think that her relationship with her girlfriend is anything but wonderful. They are so in love, have bought a house, adopted 3 dogs, and support each other every day.

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Leslie
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Shadywolfe

Cherry Blossom

Re: Interesting Question
lilkoala3 wrote:You know, I am really surprised that so many of you are pro-choice. I am pro-choice (I'm sure no one is surprised there).


I think all of the arguments on both sides have been stated. My sister is lesbian, and I cannot contemplate that anyone could think that her relationship with her girlfriend is anything but wonderful. They are so in love, have bought a house, adopted 3 dogs, and support each other every day.

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aww they look good together... beautiful women:-D
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JeanG

Cherry Cola

Re: Interesting Question
They make a beautiful couple; they look so happy! It's a great layout, Leslie. And I think a lot of us may be pro-choice because we remember when abortion was illegal and you went to some back-street "doctor" who used a clothes hanger to abort you...and many women died from infections, or the infections and butcher jobs meant they could never again have kids. I just cannot see going back to those times when women had no rights over their bodies.
I wonder, sometimes, if we ever give God a headache.
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