I put this here because I'm sure I'm going to raise questions, and I don't want to offend anyone. But I truly could use some opinions and perhaps advice, as this is something that has gnawed at me for about 7 years now. I apologize in advance because I think it will be lengthy.
I used to attend church regularly. I grew up in a REformed Church, which is a Protestant church for those of you who might live in areas where this denomination is not prevalent. As I got older, I searched for a church that felt "right," matching my beliefs with the observance practices. I am a music person...came really close to going into music as a career (I am a clarinetist) but wanted music to always be something I wanted to do rather than what I had to do, so went to nursing school instead. I wanted a church that celebrated with music...not with what I call stodgy slow church hymns. The Bible says to sing and dance to praise the Lord...that's what I always felt church music should do. I eventually made my way to a fairly conservative non denominational church. the ex wouldn't go to church with us...always saying he had to work. I begged him to do this as a family, but excuse came after excuse. When I eventually realized I couldn't go on with the marriage, after months of struggling and trying to figure out what I was meant to do, I filed for divorce. I then was "treated" to a 3 week series on keeping marriages intact, and how it was the woman's role to keep the family together. I am sure it was simply coincidental timing, but I actually walked out on the sermons....I didn't need the guilt on top of what I was already dealing with. Then the ex asked me what "Biblical grounds" I had to file for divorce...as he hadn't been unfaithful to me. I told him the Bible also said two should not be yoked unequally...but he chose not to listen to me. He now will refuse to take the kids at certain points because "he has church at that time." Amazing how now it's so important to do things I had begged him to do before.
My oldest daughter is gay...she is in a stable relationship right now, and I am actually the one who brought up the subject before she ever broached it with me. I truly do not believe anyone "chooses" a gay lifestyle...why would anyone choose something that is difficult? And society definitely makes it difficult. But it is who she is, not something she chooses. And God made her the way she is....how can that be wrong? She is a loving, caring, giving, funny individual, and I am blessed to be her mom. But the church I had been attending told me I needed to pray for her healing. She isn't broken...what is there to be healed?
I still believe in God, and believe that we are created in His image, which is another reason I have a hard time believing that DD is "wrong" or "broken." But I have a very difficult time with organized religion. I felt rejected by the church I had been attending, and have been unable to find one whose philosophies resemble mine, and who believe in "singing and raising praise to the Lord." I got frustrated searching, and eventually gave up. My doctor, who is also a close friend, attends the church and is very supportive and understanding of where I am coming from, which helps. But I am wondering if anyone has experienced anything like this, or might have some advice? It still bothers me that i"m not raising my kids in a church environment, but I don't want to be a hypocrite by taking them to a church which says DD is wrong or that I didn't do what God wanted me to have done. Thoughts?
Cherry Addict
You don't quit playing because you grow old....you grow old because you quit playing.
Chocolate Covered Cherry
Well, I certainly 'get' your dilemma. In my experience, most churches with more contemporary music (e.g. with bands) are very conservative in values. Here there are a few large, somewhat liberal churches that have more casual services (one's at a theater) - you might look into something like that (like a big United Methodist or Presbyterian church).
I'm a musician & play piano for our church, which has mostly contemporary music. I think we could be accepting of someone practicing homosexual behavior (though they would not be allowed to be in leadership); I know we could be accepting of a familiar member supporting someone in that lifestyle. But we do believe it is Biblically forbidden. There are plenty of 'natural desires' it is not good to act upon and I believe there are people who have been changed by God to leave the lifestyle and no longer have those desires. I'm sorry, I know it puts you in a difficult position. I hope you find a good solution for your family and that you can be a part of a worshiping community and have people to help challenge you in your spiritual walk in a supporting way regardless of potentially conflicting beliefs.
I'm also glad you felt free enough to share this here!
I'm a musician & play piano for our church, which has mostly contemporary music. I think we could be accepting of someone practicing homosexual behavior (though they would not be allowed to be in leadership); I know we could be accepting of a familiar member supporting someone in that lifestyle. But we do believe it is Biblically forbidden. There are plenty of 'natural desires' it is not good to act upon and I believe there are people who have been changed by God to leave the lifestyle and no longer have those desires. I'm sorry, I know it puts you in a difficult position. I hope you find a good solution for your family and that you can be a part of a worshiping community and have people to help challenge you in your spiritual walk in a supporting way regardless of potentially conflicting beliefs.
I'm also glad you felt free enough to share this here!
Cherry Jubilee
HUGS Nancy. I am currently an ELCA Lutheran. I say currently because I was baptized Lutheran, attended Catholic and Presbyterian churches growing up, then attended not at all and went back to Lutheran when my mom was sick and dying.
Neither of my sisters attends church nor believes in any higher being. That sometimes brings up fun discussions at family gatherings, but no one ever pushes the issue.
If you didn't know - the ELCA Lutherans just voted (last year) to allow committed homosexuals to preach. They had previously allowed celibate ones to preach. This has caused all forms of controversy and I find myself in the middle lots. Our church is very very old fashioned - we just celebrated our 140th year. DH is very very conservative. I am not. I believe as you, that no one would CHOOSE to be gay. I have no issues with anyone who is and have many friends (not in Nebraska) that are gay. I can't say how I would feel if my church had a gay pastor, but can say that I also have problems with receiving marriage counseling from a single person.
Our church is mixed when it comes to music...it depends on who the organist is for the week
I say - keep searching for a church. There are many that are wonderfully open to so much and also so very welcoming! I know in the midwest it's sometimes harder to find those open churches, but they are out there.
HUGS. Not sure if my ramblings helped at all though.
Neither of my sisters attends church nor believes in any higher being. That sometimes brings up fun discussions at family gatherings, but no one ever pushes the issue.
If you didn't know - the ELCA Lutherans just voted (last year) to allow committed homosexuals to preach. They had previously allowed celibate ones to preach. This has caused all forms of controversy and I find myself in the middle lots. Our church is very very old fashioned - we just celebrated our 140th year. DH is very very conservative. I am not. I believe as you, that no one would CHOOSE to be gay. I have no issues with anyone who is and have many friends (not in Nebraska) that are gay. I can't say how I would feel if my church had a gay pastor, but can say that I also have problems with receiving marriage counseling from a single person.
Our church is mixed when it comes to music...it depends on who the organist is for the week
I say - keep searching for a church. There are many that are wonderfully open to so much and also so very welcoming! I know in the midwest it's sometimes harder to find those open churches, but they are out there.
HUGS. Not sure if my ramblings helped at all though.
Jenna - Mom to Emily (2/02) & Kaitlyn (2/04)
Cherry Addict
I'm with you totally on the difficulty accepting marriage counseling from a single person, Jenna. I have long questioned that in the Catholic church...how can a man who has vowed total celibacy counsel me on how to handle my marriage? thankfully, I wasn't raised Catholic so at least that's one issue I haven't had to deal with. There is a man I see in the ER periodically...I've known him for about 7 or 8 years or so...he has been in a faithful, committed relationship (gay) for 25 years. His partner has always been there for him during health crises, good times and bad, and it is phenomenal to see. I certainly can't make that claim. Personally, I feel that there are enough screwed up relationships in this world that if someone finds another who will commit to them totally, and be supportive, then that's a good thing. We all can use all the support and positive relationships we can develop in this world.
You don't quit playing because you grow old....you grow old because you quit playing.
Cherry Berry
Nancy... first off, Bravo! Bravo for being such a loving and understanding parent. Bravo for recognizing that your DD is not broken; she just is who she is: your child and God's child. My db is gay. He's single, and a teacher and an actor, and he's wonderful.
We gave up on church a long time ago. We believe, but we don't congregate. We were all raised Catholic, then followed a protestant church while I was growing up, and when db was a teen my mom gave up. They told my mom to get counseling for db, that he needed to go to the psych, that "it" could be "cured". Well, he's not sick. He's not "broken" and most importantly, he's not an "it".
We believe. But we don't believe in going to church. There's nothing worse than hearing a pastor preach about something and then turn around and do the opposite. We won't believe that the strength of our faith is based on what a preacher can say or do (as many people do). Our church is in our hearts and God's word is in the Bible. We can read too.
Good luck on your quest. Hope the universe takes you and your family to the right place. Just have faith. It'll happen. {{Hugs}}
We gave up on church a long time ago. We believe, but we don't congregate. We were all raised Catholic, then followed a protestant church while I was growing up, and when db was a teen my mom gave up. They told my mom to get counseling for db, that he needed to go to the psych, that "it" could be "cured". Well, he's not sick. He's not "broken" and most importantly, he's not an "it".
We believe. But we don't believe in going to church. There's nothing worse than hearing a pastor preach about something and then turn around and do the opposite. We won't believe that the strength of our faith is based on what a preacher can say or do (as many people do). Our church is in our hearts and God's word is in the Bible. We can read too.
Good luck on your quest. Hope the universe takes you and your family to the right place. Just have faith. It'll happen. {{Hugs}}
Cherry Jubilee
You can still be a believer and not attend a regular service. Your church can be wherever you wish it to be... a place to give thanks for your blessings.
Lynda
Cherry Bing
I agree! For me, it's about spirituality and not organized religion. Nancy, I think society in general makes us "feel" like we should always be doing the "right thing" but who is to say what is right for you? Only you know:)LyndaKay wrote:You can still be a believer and not attend a regular service. Your church can be wherever you wish it to be... a place to give thanks for your blessings.
Sometimes the one you think is your knight in shining armour might actually turn out to be a retard in tin foil!
Cherry Addict
First, let me thank everyone for their support. I think that's one of the hardest things about raising my kids by myself...I don't always have someone I can talk about these things with.
DD and I are very much alike...so much alike sometimes it's scary. We have many times finished each other's sentences, or said the same thing at the very same time. A friend of mine says she is my "mini-me"....whether that's good or bad, I don't know! lol
I will never believe anything but that we are created by God. That was confirmed when I was in nursing school, and learned how complex and how well the human body works together. This may sound weird, but down to how the muscle fibers in the uterus are shaped differently at the top of the uterus and the bottom...just to make it more efficient while giving birth. For someone to suggest we "evolved".....that's preposterous! I don't necessarily believe all Bible stories are literal reports of events...it is God's story as observers tell it. That leaves it somewhat open to interpretation. We all pick and choose what we take from it...otherwise, we would all still be living under the strict rules of life as told in Leviticus. But I do want my children to know of the stories, and the guidelines, and the principles related there. I will still work to find a church I can attend...I like the idea of contacting the pastor ahead of time, rather than "wasting" my time with an ongoing random visitation process.
I know my ideas about life in general are not always like those of the majority...I have some oddball views at times, and I'm told I have a unique way of dealing with life sometimes. But I truly appreciate everyone's input and the time and thoughtfulness conveyed here. Once again, you rock, ladies!
DD and I are very much alike...so much alike sometimes it's scary. We have many times finished each other's sentences, or said the same thing at the very same time. A friend of mine says she is my "mini-me"....whether that's good or bad, I don't know! lol
I will never believe anything but that we are created by God. That was confirmed when I was in nursing school, and learned how complex and how well the human body works together. This may sound weird, but down to how the muscle fibers in the uterus are shaped differently at the top of the uterus and the bottom...just to make it more efficient while giving birth. For someone to suggest we "evolved".....that's preposterous! I don't necessarily believe all Bible stories are literal reports of events...it is God's story as observers tell it. That leaves it somewhat open to interpretation. We all pick and choose what we take from it...otherwise, we would all still be living under the strict rules of life as told in Leviticus. But I do want my children to know of the stories, and the guidelines, and the principles related there. I will still work to find a church I can attend...I like the idea of contacting the pastor ahead of time, rather than "wasting" my time with an ongoing random visitation process.
I know my ideas about life in general are not always like those of the majority...I have some oddball views at times, and I'm told I have a unique way of dealing with life sometimes. But I truly appreciate everyone's input and the time and thoughtfulness conveyed here. Once again, you rock, ladies!
You don't quit playing because you grow old....you grow old because you quit playing.
Cherry Tart
You can't go wrong with attending a Calvary Chapel! There are lots of them around. They are nondemoninational, and they appeal to so many of us who grew up in a main line denomination and are so turned off by them now.
CCs offer contemporary Christian music (great stuff!), casual attire (and I mean casual: jeans, t-shirts, flip-flops, etc.), and they teach right from the Bible (usually verse-by-verse, chapter-by-chapter). Most don't take an offering (there are boxes in the back for your tithes and offerings).
They believe that your giving is between God and you and not any one else's business. The pastors don't know what anyone gives because that will naturally predjudice him to treat people differently.
And there are no "joining" the church. you can come and go as you please because once you are a believer, you are a member of God's family.
Check them out!
Beth
CCs offer contemporary Christian music (great stuff!), casual attire (and I mean casual: jeans, t-shirts, flip-flops, etc.), and they teach right from the Bible (usually verse-by-verse, chapter-by-chapter). Most don't take an offering (there are boxes in the back for your tithes and offerings).
They believe that your giving is between God and you and not any one else's business. The pastors don't know what anyone gives because that will naturally predjudice him to treat people differently.
And there are no "joining" the church. you can come and go as you please because once you are a believer, you are a member of God's family.
Check them out!
Beth
Cherry Addict
thanks Beth, for your suggestion. I just discovered there is indeed a Calvary Chapel here in town. Will try to contact the pastor in the next few days and have a chat.
You don't quit playing because you grow old....you grow old because you quit playing.
Cherry Jubilee
I agree!! For me, I was turned away by some churches after my divorce and it soured me on the whole thing. (((((HUGS))))) to you and I hope that you find the right place for youLyndaKay wrote:You can still be a believer and not attend a regular service. Your church can be wherever you wish it to be... a place to give thanks for your blessings.
Em
My blog
My blog
Cherry Bing
HUGS to you Nancy and this tough time you are going thru. Many cherries have shared my thoughts, so I won't reiterate. I do want to comment on the importance of church community though. We really struggled with our previous mainline church. Too much doctrine for us, and I thrive on the contemporary worship/music style as that is when I feel the deep connection to God. In some ways it was too liberal, and in others condescending of the "newer" churches (religions) - the pastor did not believe in unity, which I disagreed with much.
We found a perfect fit for us in an Evangelical Free church that welcomes people from all walk of life. Whether or not they are living a lifestyle in accordance with bible does not matter - because the fact is, we all fall short of living up to that Godly image. We all have struggles. Not one of us is perfect.
Being a part of a church community is important to us because it provides fellowship with others who are following Christ and growing in faith. Believers never stop growing...our journey continues every day and our faith grows as our relationship with our Maker grows. That happens through being in the Word, study, prayer - not only alone but with other believers.
Our church is currently in a series called "wired" - and it is about reconnecting to God and to one another in an age of wireless technology. I just created a layout about it last night, in fact, and will get it in the gallery soon. What I really hope for you is that you find a church home where you and your family can be in relationship and community with others. One that has programming for your kids, where they can feel safe and ask questions. May God lead you to the place where you belong. I pray that will happen. God's peace!
We found a perfect fit for us in an Evangelical Free church that welcomes people from all walk of life. Whether or not they are living a lifestyle in accordance with bible does not matter - because the fact is, we all fall short of living up to that Godly image. We all have struggles. Not one of us is perfect.
Being a part of a church community is important to us because it provides fellowship with others who are following Christ and growing in faith. Believers never stop growing...our journey continues every day and our faith grows as our relationship with our Maker grows. That happens through being in the Word, study, prayer - not only alone but with other believers.
Our church is currently in a series called "wired" - and it is about reconnecting to God and to one another in an age of wireless technology. I just created a layout about it last night, in fact, and will get it in the gallery soon. What I really hope for you is that you find a church home where you and your family can be in relationship and community with others. One that has programming for your kids, where they can feel safe and ask questions. May God lead you to the place where you belong. I pray that will happen. God's peace!
Rita S
Life is about second chances. There would be no hope if God didn't give us another.
Life is about second chances. There would be no hope if God didn't give us another.
Cherry Cola
I don't really have a lot to add, except that there is nothing wrong with you for not fitting in at your previous churches.
I, personally, am an atheist. I have searched and studied and really really tried to believe in God, but it just didn't work for me. However, I sometimes still wish that I belonged to a church. it would be soooo much easier if I just believed.
So, my point is, keep looking. You will find a place where you and your family belong. I truly believe that you can be spiritual without attending church, but I think belonging to a congregation can be helpful in so many ways, especially for a single mother.
I, personally, am an atheist. I have searched and studied and really really tried to believe in God, but it just didn't work for me. However, I sometimes still wish that I belonged to a church. it would be soooo much easier if I just believed.
So, my point is, keep looking. You will find a place where you and your family belong. I truly believe that you can be spiritual without attending church, but I think belonging to a congregation can be helpful in so many ways, especially for a single mother.
Bowl Full of Cherries
I'm in the same boat at Meg. I consider myself a Humanist, and I go to an Ethical Humanist "church" about 2 or 3 times a month. It gives me that sense of community of being around like-minded individuals, but I love the fact that these people push critical thinking and doing the right thing when it comes to fellow humans simply because they are human.megamay wrote:I don't really have a lot to add, except that there is nothing wrong with you for not fitting in at your previous churches.
I, personally, am an atheist. I have searched and studied and really really tried to believe in God, but it just didn't work for me. However, I sometimes still wish that I belonged to a church. it would be soooo much easier if I just believed.
So, my point is, keep looking. You will find a place where you and your family belong. I truly believe that you can be spiritual without attending church, but I think belonging to a congregation can be helpful in so many ways, especially for a single mother.
Leslie
Cherry Cola
I have found this entire discussion fascination. I typically don't share my views on these subjects, but I have to jump in.
I am not much of a believer. I honestly don't know what I believe. But over the last few years- not sure if it motherhood or losing my grandmother- I have been questioning my lack of faith.
I am turned off by most of modern Christianity. Mainly due to its stance on homosexuality, marriage and right wing politicians. I could never ever go to a church that advocated that homosexuality is a choose or that it is morally corrupt. Nor could I go to a church that diminishes women or blames everything on feminists.
But I want too raise my daughters in a church. I like the idea of community, and I want them to understand the stories. I want them to learn decent values, about helping others and loving our planet.
DH's grandfather was a priest in the Episcopal church, and I was raised Catholic. And since I have no love for the Catholic Church we have been going to an Episcopal church. So far we love the one we found. (we tried another one and it didn't work for us.) The priest is a divorced woman, who talks about accepting everyone and that mistakes happen etc. The plant a garden every year where all the food goes to a local group to feed the homeless. They have a series of lectures on helping the environment.
So I understand where you are coming from. Keep looking, perhaps you can find one that will be more in line with your belief systems. Good luck.
I am not much of a believer. I honestly don't know what I believe. But over the last few years- not sure if it motherhood or losing my grandmother- I have been questioning my lack of faith.
I am turned off by most of modern Christianity. Mainly due to its stance on homosexuality, marriage and right wing politicians. I could never ever go to a church that advocated that homosexuality is a choose or that it is morally corrupt. Nor could I go to a church that diminishes women or blames everything on feminists.
But I want too raise my daughters in a church. I like the idea of community, and I want them to understand the stories. I want them to learn decent values, about helping others and loving our planet.
DH's grandfather was a priest in the Episcopal church, and I was raised Catholic. And since I have no love for the Catholic Church we have been going to an Episcopal church. So far we love the one we found. (we tried another one and it didn't work for us.) The priest is a divorced woman, who talks about accepting everyone and that mistakes happen etc. The plant a garden every year where all the food goes to a local group to feed the homeless. They have a series of lectures on helping the environment.
So I understand where you are coming from. Keep looking, perhaps you can find one that will be more in line with your belief systems. Good luck.
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