Information

[immom2anc]

This is in debate because I have a feeling it may spur one. I've just recently moved to Arizona and our governor has signed a bill allowing police officers to question the immigration status of anyone suspected of a crime. CNN has an article here, or you can Google it if you haven't heard anything about it.

What are your feelings on this? Do you support it or not?


I am a registered Democrat with quite liberal feelings about politics, but this is one idea I do support. In Europe, you are required to carry around your documentation and if you cannot provide it, you will be removed from whatever country you're in. I'm okay with the United States doing the same thing, so I support Arizonas new law. If you are not here by legal means, you shouldn't receive the benefits that those who went about it the legal way do. I do feel bad for the repercussions on families that have legal/illegal mix in them. It would be a true hardship. And as far as the arguments from Civil Rights groups saying that there's racial profiling going on and that its only a race issue. No its not. It is a citizenship issue. Police are not allowed to stop someone on the street just because they look "illegal," they have to already be suspected of another crime first. (Similar to the seat belt laws here). Being here without documentation is already breaking a federal law, this bill just allows local police to work with federal officials easier and more efficiently.

Ok, your turn....

[kittymomma]

I agree that it should be okay for people to be asked to prove their citizenship. THat being said--DH and I were talking--and what does that entail--is your driver's license sufficient--or do you need your passport or what with you?

[PezKat]

Right, what exactly does it mean to have the citizenship "questioned"? Definitely sounds like a good/not bad idea, just not sure what it would entail.

[immom2anc]

I agree that it should be okay for people to be asked to prove their citizenship. THat being said--DH and I were talking--and what does that entail--is your driver's license sufficient--or do you need your passport or what with you?

You cannot obtain a driver's license without being a legal citizen, so a driver's license or state ID will work. Which in Arizona, you are legally required to have on you at all times. Or if you are an alien, you'll need your registration documentation which by federal law, you are required to carry anyway. So nothing really new. I did find an interesting article shedding light on some of the myths that the media has been spinning.

[cropjester]

I lived and worked as a nurse in AZ. This law may be news, but border patrol was questioning people's immigration status long before it was "law". AZ is home to many native americans who are constantly pulled over and asked to prove where they are from. I was puzzled by this and asked a native american who had been pulled over several times ( and not for any justifiable reason, like speeding) what was the criteria. She felt it was because her car was older, her large family size and the color of her skin. I would have to agree. She is a tax paying US citizen who will conitinue to get harrassed with the support of the AZ government.


On the flipside - working in health care in AZ allowed me to see just how much money the state is losing from undocumented people, who will never pay a dime for the services they recieve. And it is very true, the whole border baby thing - women do just show up in the US to deliver. Might I suggest that if a child is born to undocumented parents that the child remain a citizen of the country of the parents origin. That may curtail some of our losses. Just my opinion.

[sherry]

If you want to come here legally, work & pay taxes, I say "welcome". If you want to sneak across the border and welch off the people here working hard & paying taxes, I say "go home". I support the Az. law.

[Jenn Kellams]

On the flipside - working in health care in AZ allowed me to see just how much money the state is losing from undocumented people, who will never pay a dime for the services they recieve. And it is very true, the whole border baby thing - women do just show up in the US to deliver. Might I suggest that if a child is born to undocumented parents that the child remain a citizen of the country of the parents origin. That may curtail some of our losses. Just my opinion.

This is how I feel with education. I don't know if it's a federal law of a Florida law, but we are to NEVER question the citizenship of a child in the public schools. If their parents are illegals and they are too, they are still welcome to attend public school and it irritates me. They get free lunches, use our resources, and for what? Teachers are already losing jobs here because there isn't enough money. Also, I don't have insurance and don't qualify for medicaid b/c my husband makes to much money. However, a non-US citizen DOES qualify for it? It's bullpoop if you ask me. I support the law if it is done legally!

[gonecamping]

I support the law as well. Working in the schools, I see so much discrimination on the side of Americans. If we have your average kid come in then we have to ask for birth certificate, shot records ect..if we have kids come that are obviously from Mexico, we are not allowed to ask for any documentation at all. They automatically get free lunch/breakfast, a backpack provided with all school supplies, and access to the free dental and medical clinic here in town that is conveniently in the parking lot on the apartment complex that is primarily spanish speaking residents.

I am not racist by any means, but why do these people get all these benefits? We have 2 Migrant Liasons working for our district and their job is basically to run these families around to different appointments to get sign up for benifits. If the family doesn't have a ride to the doctors, the Liason for our school district takes them to their appointment. If they need food stamps, our Liason takes them to the office of human services to sign up. I worked with the ELL (english language learners) department and we had one student whose family was suddenly homeless. They were put to the top of the housing list because they were a migrant family and they got public housing before some other families who were white and homeless and who had been on the list for months.

I am not in AZ but I think the government needs to start enforcing this law. Its illegal to be here without documentation. Why do we allow them to get all these benefits when they are here illegally. This is a sore subject with me because I see the amount of tax dollars we waste every day on the people who come here illegally. Come here with the proper papers and I will support that. Come here illegally and complain about the US not doing enough for you and I say GO HOME!

Off my soapbox now.....

[Janshotgun]

I whole-heartedly support the Arizona Immigration Law!

[scrapscot]

I think we need some sort of reform ...I work in child support and I see the number of illegals getting services from TANF and Medicaid; I also see how many of them don't have social security numbers and those that "share" SSN making it harder to find the non-custodial parent. That said.....I dont' agree that someone should be stopped just because they "look Illegal" and I'm afraid that's going to happen, not just in Arizona but elsewhere. So NO, I don't support the AZ law. I think there is a better way out there.

[Flasher]

I support Arizona's efforts. The federal government has failed to enforce its own laws and legislation, so they need to take matters into their own hands.


Honestly, I can't believe people are so upset at the idea that some people may be asked for identification of any kind. I have to show my driver's license at my freakin' doctor's office. The first thing any cop will ask you during a stop is for your license and registration. I lost my license last year, and even though I had an actual copy of it, I still had to provide my Birth Certificate.



When this story first broke a few weeks ago, I was watching coverage of one of the rallies in Arizona. There were some that were worried that they were going to be asked for ID just because they "looked" like an illegal. The police were reassuring people that they were not just going to "target" people based on appearances. The camera then focused on one young man in the crowd, I don't know if he was legal or not, but he said that his family "had enough to worry about and now we have to worry about the pigs". Nice. There are just some people that have no respect for laws or procedures. Arizona needs to protect Arizona first.

[JDs Mom]

I think there are two sides to this debate...and I'm not getting in the middle!

[Sandi0805]

I agree with the Arizona law.

[MLee]

First, how many of you are actual Native Americans? Then most of your ancestors more than likely came here illegally. The majority of our ancestors did NOT come here through Ellis Island, they were poor Irish, Scottish, German or other immigrants who came here to get away from famine, persecution, starvation, to find better working conditions (which most did not) and many of them changed their names, lied, joined the military and many other sneaky, manipulative ways to become "citizens." Now you want to point your finger at those coming across the southern border why? What about those coming in from our northern border? Are they okay because their skin color is fairer? Do you think they work harder? Pay more taxes? Is that your assumption?

How many of you have actually applied for a Visa or a green card in the last year? Are you aware how difficult that is? It's almost impossible for an American trying to work legally abroad, it is downright impossible for someone from South America to get one. Now, try to get citizenship papers. Good Luck.

You and your ancestors had an opportunity that these people will never have because a bunch of rich, white bureaucrats on the US side and a bunch of corrupt officials who want pay offs on their side won't allow the rules to be changed.

So that brings us to AZ.

People in Europe have to travel with papers because there is - simply put - so much travel. There is travel between countries by train, plane and automobile. When you go in and out of those countries you show your passport. It's that simple.

In America, we have one large nation in the center. There are two bordering countries and border guards on either side. There is no longer free travel permitted between the three. However, I am able to travel freely within the parameters of the US. Why, then, as an American citizen, should I be forced to show papers at the drop of a whim to any Tom, Dick or Harry cop?

Our constitution protects its citizens against this very action. If, in fact, these citizens or non-citizens were disobeying the law and were apprehended because of that and THEN it became known that they were here illegally, that would be a different story.

However, as in most cases, this is just another way for cops with an itch in their pants to harass anyone they don't care for: Native Americans, any people of color except RICH WHITE MALES who vote Republican, red haired women who refuse to kiss their collective asses, teenage boys out on a Saturday night. In other words, just as the Jim Crow laws were used in the early 20th century to discriminate against black voters, AZ has now adopted a law that will deliberately and legally allow their law enforcement officials to harass anyone they choose.

This law also violates the 10th amendment by allowing the state to override the laws of the Federal government. Even though I am all for state's rights, as I am constantly reminded by my dear friends here in the north the south lost the war and so Federal law trumps State law. We really don't want to re-ring that old bell again, do we?

Finally, the only country - sole, singular country - that has demanded of its people to give proof of citizenship at the whim and fancy of its armed officials was Nazi Germany. Most countries learned from their mistake. Obviously, by your reactions, not all countries did.

If we are willing to treat other humans the way that Americans treat those who come across our Southern borders, it's only a matter of time before Americans are treated the same. Oh wait.... America already is falling apart and hated by everyone in the world.... I can't imagine why.

America was built on the backs of immigrants, on the with the hands of the poor, held together with the sweat from those who were escaping from something or someone. This country doesn't belong to "YOU" just because you pay some piddling amount of tax money in your few years of existence here. You all sound just like the southern white mob or the Klan in the 1930's and 40's. You certainly are no better than they were/are.

God help America.

[Flasher]

MLee said "This country doesn't belong to "YOU" just because you pay some piddling amount of tax money in your few years of existence here. You all sound just like the southern white mob or the Klan in the 1930's and 40's. You certainly are no better than they were/are. "
I resent that. I will not allow anyone to lump me into a group such as the southern white mob or the Klan simply because I believe that our country should enforce it's laws. This has nothing to do with me hating anyone, which is the platform of the groups you mentioned. It has to do with people not following the rules. Period.

[wimom]

I support the Arizona law. I would like to see how it works when put into use; perhaps it will need to be modified. Before 9/11 I might not have supported this, but now I believe the US must do more to secure its borders, and this will help deter illegal entry. Maybe the law is not perfect, but I think it is a step in the right direction.

[cynderellaj]

Yes, I agree that our ancestors probably came here illegally and got into the country by the same means that some of these illegals are doing today. However, noone was standing at the border handing out benefits to my ancestors when they came either. Noone was standing there offering interpreters for every single service they needed...they needed to learn how to speak the language and communicate. Noone was there handing out medical services or housing or any other assistance. The majority of them worked hard and got by on whatever they could find. Noone gave them a job just because they needed to show they weren't discriminating but because they were skilled and could do the job.


If a person comes to this country legally and follows the same rules that I have to follow, pays their taxes, etc I say welcome!! But if not, then I am really sorry that things are so crappy in your country, but please go home and come back in the correct way. Thanks!

[-Shannon-]

First, how many of you are actual Native Americans? Then most of your ancestors more than likely came here illegally. The majority of our ancestors did NOT come here through Ellis Island, they were poor Irish, Scottish, German or other immigrants who came here to get away from famine, persecution, starvation, to find better working conditions (which most did not) and many of them changed their names, lied, joined the military and many other sneaky, manipulative ways to become "citizens." Now you want to point your finger at those coming across the southern border why? What about those coming in from our northern border? Are they okay because their skin color is fairer? Do you think they work harder? Pay more taxes? Is that your assumption?

How many of you have actually applied for a Visa or a green card in the last year? Are you aware how difficult that is? It's almost impossible for an American trying to work legally abroad, it is downright impossible for someone from South America to get one. Now, try to get citizenship papers. Good Luck.

You and your ancestors had an opportunity that these people will never have because a bunch of rich, white bureaucrats on the US side and a bunch of corrupt officials who want pay offs on their side won't allow the rules to be changed.

So that brings us to AZ.

People in Europe have to travel with papers because there is - simply put - so much travel. There is travel between countries by train, plane and automobile. When you go in and out of those countries you show your passport. It's that simple.

In America, we have one large nation in the center. There are two bordering countries and border guards on either side. There is no longer free travel permitted between the three. However, I am able to travel freely within the parameters of the US. Why, then, as an American citizen, should I be forced to show papers at the drop of a whim to any Tom, Dick or Harry cop?

Our constitution protects its citizens against this very action. If, in fact, these citizens or non-citizens were disobeying the law and were apprehended because of that and THEN it became known that they were here illegally, that would be a different story.

However, as in most cases, this is just another way for cops with an itch in their pants to harass anyone they don't care for: Native Americans, any people of color except RICH WHITE MALES who vote Republican, red haired women who refuse to kiss their collective asses, teenage boys out on a Saturday night. In other words, just as the Jim Crow laws were used in the early 20th century to discriminate against black voters, AZ has now adopted a law that will deliberately and legally allow their law enforcement officials to harass anyone they choose.

This law also violates the 10th amendment by allowing the state to override the laws of the Federal government. Even though I am all for state's rights, as I am constantly reminded by my dear friends here in the north the south lost the war and so Federal law trumps State law. We really don't want to re-ring that old bell again, do we?

Finally, the only country - sole, singular country - that has demanded of its people to give proof of citizenship at the whim and fancy of its armed officials was Nazi Germany. Most countries learned from their mistake. Obviously, by your reactions, not all countries did.

If we are willing to treat other humans the way that Americans treat those who come across our Southern borders, it's only a matter of time before Americans are treated the same. Oh wait.... America already is falling apart and hated by everyone in the world.... I can't imagine why.

America was built on the backs of immigrants, on the with the hands of the poor, held together with the sweat from those who were escaping from something or someone. This country doesn't belong to "YOU" just because you pay some piddling amount of tax money in your few years of existence here. You all sound just like the southern white mob or the Klan in the 1930's and 40's. You certainly are no better than they were/are.

God help America.

I disagree with you and I support the Arizona law 100%.

[AlwaysHappy]

I totally support the law. I live in TX and illegals are coming across the Mexico border into TX on a continuous basis. They are using up our resources, bringing in more crime, bringing over diseases like TB or worse, and getting a free ride in the process. Our insurance rates are going up to compensate their medical expenses, which are paid for by TX Medicaid. We have a very real problem with illegals in TX and always have. Anyone who has lived in TX for anytime can spot an illegal a mile away. They never make eye contact, pretend not to understand Engish, don't know how to drive according to our laws, and are cruel to animals (such as dog fighting and cock fighting to the death). This is a subject I could go on and on about, but I won't say anymore because I could type pages on how I feel about it and I get mad when I talk about it.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the Spanish people or their culture IF THEY ARE HERE LEGALLY. My anger is directed towards the illegals.

[AlwaysHappy]

I totally support the law. I live in TX and illegals are coming across the Mexico border into TX on a continuous basis. They are using up our resources, bringing in more crime, bringing over diseases like TB or worse, and getting a free ride in the process. Our insurance rates are going up to compensate their medical expenses, which are paid for by TX Medicaid. We have a very real problem with illegals in TX and always have. Anyone who has lived in TX for anytime can spot an illegal a mile away. They never make eye contact, pretend not to understand Engish, don't know how to drive according to our laws, and are cruel to animals. This is a subject I could go on and on about, but I won't say anymore because I could type pages on how I feel about it and I get mad when I talk about it.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the Spanish people or their culture IF THEY ARE HERE LEGALLY. My anger is directed towards the illegals.

PS: And another thing my grandparents imigrated to America from Prague CZechoslovakia, in the early 1900's. They came over on a ship (not illegally). Anyone who knows their American history knows that the imigrants had to sign a log when entering an imigration port and had to show papers. They weren't sneaking across the border and hiding in the shadows. They came to America for a better way of life. They weren't coming for a "free ride". They worked hard, learned to speak English, and were law abiding according to our laws. It's an insult to even compare the early imigrants to the illegal alien issues of today.