Information

[Flasher]

You know, I'm fairly liberal as well, but my take is this: Aren't there already enough places to get this kind of service? Hooters, strip clubs? Then there are magazines, movies, cartoons, video games, even EASTER candy commercials using the sex angle (Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs for Easter - the commercial shows a chocolate bunny getting cozy with a jar of peanut butter while "Let's Get It On" plays in the background.)

I will NEVER understand how or why sex has become so "in your face". It's everywhere. I'm no prude by any stretch, but seriously where will it end?

On the legal side, they have the right to be in business, so I guess leave them alone. As long as nothing is visible to passers-by, then carry on if you must.

[ChrissyTina]

Interesting thing here is that the stand is owned by a........woman! I have no objections to it. I think Megamay hit it right on the head, booby, butt, whatever....

The people paying the big tips for big "tips" are free to do that. And if the woman wants to make her moolah that way, then that's her right to do so. I don't see it as demeaning unless you allow yourself to feel that way. Megamay, you are absolutely correct to quote Mrs. Roosevelt.

They aren't prostitutes. And hey, if you got, then good for you!

[AnnOminous]

Kids should not be able to see it.

[ChrissyTina]

I'm completely appalled. There appears to be no end in sight to the subjugation of women by making them nothing more than sex toys.

I don't care about people's bodies - nakedness doesn't bother me in the least. What concerns me is the trivialization of women and the message it continually sends to men and boys and then, in turn, to young girls and, obviously from the responses here in support of this ridiculousness, to women when they're older.

Men don't do this - they think better of themselves than this. Why do women?

Should the government step in and limit this type of business? Probably, but only because the people are, once again, too stupid to police themselves.

I think that you need to give the people responding to this thread a lot more credit than this. These are grown, mature women who I doubt are easily influenced by something as small as a Hooters-esque coffee stand. Then to call people "stupid" only serves to insult.

My girls see these things. They see what's on TV. It is MY responsibility as their mother and as a woman to teach them how to value themselves, not some magazine ad or coffee stand. Yes, there is a bit of influence from outside sources, but ultimately, it's MY responsibility.

I had a friend who danced as a stripper in order to pay for her college tuition. She is now working as a marketing supervisor for a good-sized firm and working on a graduate degree? Is that so demeaning, ridiculous, or stupid?

[scrappininAK]

I'm not against nakedness either but I think there's a time and a place for it . I don't believe a coffee stand in public where the exposure (pun intended ) is easily accessible is appropriate.

[megamay]

You know, I'm fairly liberal as well, but my take is this: Aren't there already enough places to get this kind of service? Hooters, strip clubs? Then there are magazines, movies, cartoons, video games, even EASTER candy commercials using the sex angle (Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs for Easter - the commercial shows a chocolate bunny getting cozy with a jar of peanut butter while "Let's Get It On" plays in the background.)

I will NEVER understand how or why sex has become so "in your face". It's everywhere. I'm no prude by any stretch, but seriously where will it end?

oh I totally agree with this! I get really sick of seeing it everywhere. like the candies being sexy - come on! but it's capitalism for you, whatever sells is what we are going to see more of and I guess sex sells.

[LyndaKay]

Isn't there enough crap out there already? I'm no prude, but I'm just tired of the garbage and I cast my vote against them by not patronizing places like that.

[megamay]

My girls see these things. They see what's on TV. It is MY responsibility as their mother and as a woman to teach them how to value themselves, not some magazine ad or coffee stand. Yes, there is a bit of influence from outside sources, but ultimately, it's MY responsibility.

good point! I was thinking something along those lines but couldnt think how to say it. It makes it harder to be a parent to a little girl these days, but that's the way it is all around. To be honest, the things that bother me the most are not when adults do stuff like this, but when they market sexual stuff to kids. Like all the skanky clothes in the the little girls' departments, and seeing little girls on tv shaking their behinds. I know it is imitation, but it makes it harder for me to explain it to my daughter that she isnt allowed to do something or act a certain way, when her peers are doing it. Not that that stops me, but it is easy to say, "that is something that is ok for adults but not for little girls" as opposed to trying to explain that even though her classmates are doing it, I dont want her to do it.

oh and for the record, I wouldnt patronize a place like that either and I agree with the posters who said that it's gross to have a half naked person serving you food. I just think that if there are people who want to work there and people who want to patronize the place, then that is their prerogative.

[deerewife]

I think if I worked there I'd be worried about burns....

And, yes if you want to work there go for it! However, it's got to be protected so that those that don't want to see it aren't forced to see it.

I am forever telling my girls they can't wear certain things, but it's hard to find acceptable clothing at times for them. I feel like the 6-14 size is all meant to be little adults at times. Just last week at a basketball game, my 2nd grader was shown pictures of the high school girls in skimpy bikinis....that really bugs me- she doesn't need to see that, but what do you do when it's another 2nd grader showing off the pictures?

[love2stamp]

I'm completely appalled. There appears to be no end in sight to the subjugation of women by making them nothing more than sex toys.

I don't care about people's bodies - nakedness doesn't bother me in the least. What concerns me is the trivialization of women and the message it continually sends to men and boys and then, in turn, to young girls and, obviously from the responses here in support of this ridiculousness, to women when they're older.

Men don't do this - they think better of themselves than this. Why do women?

Should the government step in and limit this type of business? Probably, but only because the people are, once again, too stupid to police themselves.

Men don't sell access to their bodies not because they think better of themselves than that, there just isnt a market for it. Women just arent as visually stimulated as men; it's a biological fact. (which I will gladly delve deeper into with anyone who wishes, because genetics and the science of attraction is a personal interest of mine, but that isnt the discussion here)

As for women being subjugated, trivialized or whatever - Eleanor Roosevelt famously said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent"

It seems to me like good business sense on the part of these women. If I were an attractive young waitress or barista, and I could make more money by doing my job wearing my bikini, well then by all means, let those 'stupid' men pay me more to do the same job, simply because I am wearing a different outfit. If it doesnt make me feel bad about myself, (and in fact it probably makes most of those women fell GOOD about themselves) then it is just me making more money for the same job.

For that matter, why is it ok for me to sell access to my brain, but not ok to sell access to my body? I mean, isnt that what we do when we go to work? I am paid a premium because I have knowledge in my brain that not everyone has, so why is the fact that I exploit my God-given intelligence for personal financial gain so much more acceptable than if I were to exploit my God-given good looks for the same end? (assuming that I have good looks to exploit that is )

Megamay well said. I totally agree. Besides have any of you ladies taken your kids to public pools lately? Way skimpy bikinis are all over the place, including most tv shows. I guess my thing is if you don't agree with the business practices of a business then don't do business with them.

[lilkoala3]

Hmmm... I think most of the main points have already been covered by now, so I'm not so sure I haven anything to add... It seems like the discussion has centered on 1) the legality of the business and 2) the morality/ethicality of the business.

1) From a legal standpoint, as long as you tint the windows so there aren't any wrecks, I don't see how you can object to this business. They aren't breaking any laws.

2) Meg, I think you make several good points, and I agree with 90% of what you said. However, I do think that M'Lee is right about these types of businesses having negative consequences on women's psyches. I have known many dancers, and most of them were troubled, abused, down-trodden women. I think this is common knowledge.

I think that dancing/working in a sex-related business makes these women sadder people. However, they make the choice. And the ability to make the choice is what gives a woman power. But is it okay if women make choices that are bad for themselves because of the dominant cultural milieu and if they have never known any better? This conundrum is the foundation for most of the debates within feminist theory. And I don't think I have thought about it enough to give my opinion.

[AnnOminous]

I'm completely appalled. There appears to be no end in sight to the subjugation of women by making them nothing more than sex toys.

I don't care about people's bodies - nakedness doesn't bother me in the least. What concerns me is the trivialization of women and the message it continually sends to men and boys and then, in turn, to young girls and, obviously from the responses here in support of this ridiculousness, to women when they're older.

Men don't do this - they think better of themselves than this. Why do women?

Should the government step in and limit this type of business? Probably, but only because the people are, once again, too stupid to police themselves.

Plenty of men sell their bodies - to other men!!

[lilkoala3]

I'm completely appalled. There appears to be no end in sight to the subjugation of women by making them nothing more than sex toys.

I don't care about people's bodies - nakedness doesn't bother me in the least. What concerns me is the trivialization of women and the message it continually sends to men and boys and then, in turn, to young girls and, obviously from the responses here in support of this ridiculousness, to women when they're older.

Men don't do this - they think better of themselves than this. Why do women?

Should the government step in and limit this type of business? Probably, but only because the people are, once again, too stupid to police themselves.

Plenty of men sell their bodies - to other men!!

And women. There's a male revue at a couple strip clubs in Philly.

[Jenn Kellams]

I am very liberal and would say - sure why not? the second article mentions tinting the window that faces the street. so I guess I could see that as a compromise. I think that the business owners should be allowed to make money from adults who wish to patronize these facitilies, but if people don't want their children to see it then maybe regulating it so that the women are not clearly visible from the street would be a compromise.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Jenn Kellams]

I'm completely appalled. There appears to be no end in sight to the subjugation of women by making them nothing more than sex toys.

I don't care about people's bodies - nakedness doesn't bother me in the least. What concerns me is the trivialization of women and the message it continually sends to men and boys and then, in turn, to young girls and, obviously from the responses here in support of this ridiculousness, to women when they're older.

Men don't do this - they think better of themselves than this. Why do women?

Should the government step in and limit this type of business? Probably, but only because the people are, once again, too stupid to police themselves.

I'm sorry but did I miss the part in the article where it said these women were handcuffed and forced to work here? And NO!!!, the government shouldn't step in. That's what is wrong is wrong with our "free" country. Too much government sticking their nose into others peoples business!!

Women should be proud of their bodies and if these girls are comfortable then its no ones business other then theirs, significant others, business owners, and customers!

[handerful]

I also agree with the fact - if they want to work there, & people want to pay them, then more power to them. I also agree they should be set up in a way so my children & I don't have to see.




As far as these type of establishments objectifying these woment & their bodies - How is this different than our weekly "hottie" threads on this site? & "hottie" bingo? Check out the Crop Hostess avitars set for the weekend. Don't we oogle over these pictures because we like what we see?

[lilkoala3]

I also agree with the fact - if they want to work there, & people want to pay them, then more power to them. I also agree they should be set up in a way so my children & I don't have to see.

As far as these type of establishments objectifying these woment & their bodies - How is this different than our weekly "hottie" threads on this site? & "hottie" bingo? Check out the Crop Hostess avitars set for the weekend. Don't we oogle over these pictures because we like what we see?

I think most people would say that the difference is that we live in a male-dominated society, and we have forever. Hence, oogling men is considered somewhat culturally subversive. Women, on the other hand, have historically been relegated to lower positions in society, and hence, objectifying them reinforces antiquated ideas of male superiority. The same argument goes for why it's "okay" to make fun of white people for being white, but not make fun of black people for being black.

[handerful]

So... Those bad men like to look at our bodies and it makes us submissive. That is bad. But it makes us feel good when we take a look at their almost naked bodies and it that is good.




What is good for the goose is bad for the gander?

[lilkoala3]

So... Those bad men like to look at our bodies and it makes us submissive. That is bad. But it makes us feel good when we take a look at their almost naked bodies and it that is good.




What is good for the goose is bad for the gander?

I think some would agree with that. But that's an oversimplification.