Information

[megamay]

No Ann et al, it is not insulting. What would be insulting to them is not to learn from the mistake made against them and allow it to happen again. It already has happened again in other parts of the world and the US has turned a blind eye to it. Do you honestly believe Americans are so much smarter and well educated that they couldn't be duped? LOL, I don't think so.

The policies and politics of Obama, his sudden rise to power, his campaign funding by the rich celebrity and his castigating of the so-called working wealthy all follow exactly the same pattern.

For Joe Biden to say that Obama's policies will not be popular a year from now is more on the mark than many of you realize. He spoke the the truth for the first time in this election.

Again, I have no doubt that he will be the next President... I've studied politics for 30 years and I've seen them come and go. I'm merely speculating about what will happen after he's elected if Americans do not open their eyes...

I agree that it would be insulting to not learn from the Holocaust. I also agree that most Americans are not so much smarter and well educated that they couldnt be duped, AND that the US has turned a blind eye to the genocides in other countries recently. But, what would you have us do about it? should we step in and police all the hurt that is going on in the world? start more wars? guess what, that is going to take even more of our money! I'm not saying that we shouldnt do something about Darfur and Rwanda, but it seems unrealistic to me to say that you dont want taxes to go up for the wealthy, and I assume that you dont want taxes to go up for the middle class, but you want to start more wars? wars cost money - lots of it!

and I think that Biden's comment about how Obama's policies will not be popular a year from now is probably correct. That is the way of politics. If McCain is elected HIS policies wont be popular a year from now either. It really is a matter of which you consider to be a lesser of two evils. All politicians promise things that they can't deliver on. All plans sound great in theory and are usually tougher in practice. That is the truth. There is no silver bullet, neither candidate is going to just sweep in and fix the economy, the energy crisis or the health care system. And in all reality, on those issues we are probably going to end up with a policy that is somewhere in the middle between what Obama is proposing and what McCain is.

I want to say that all of this dooms day stuff is a little ridiculous, but I guess when I am being honest with myself I realize that I couldnt do that without being the pot calling the kettle black. Personally, I see a lot of dooms day outcomes if McCain is in office. Lack of support and/or funding for stem cell research, loss of abortion rights, teaching of creationism in the classroom, failure to legalize gay marraige. These are all issues that I stand behind strongly and think it would be a dark day if any of them came to pass. I guess that I care less about my pocketbook than about my daughter's right to live in a free society, free from having someone else's morals forced down her throat.

[Jenn Kellams]

No Ann et al, it is not insulting. What would be insulting to them is not to learn from the mistake made against them and allow it to happen again. It already has happened again in other parts of the world and the US has turned a blind eye to it. Do you honestly believe Americans are so much smarter and well educated that they couldn't be duped? LOL, I don't think so.

The policies and politics of Obama, his sudden rise to power, his campaign funding by the rich celebrity and his castigating of the so-called working wealthy all follow exactly the same pattern.

For Joe Biden to say that Obama's policies will not be popular a year from now is more on the mark than many of you realize. He spoke the the truth for the first time in this election.

Again, I have no doubt that he will be the next President... I've studied politics for 30 years and I've seen them come and go. I'm merely speculating about what will happen after he's elected if Americans do not open their eyes...

I agree that it would be insulting to not learn from the Holocaust. I also agree that most Americans are not so much smarter and well educated that they couldnt be duped, AND that the US has turned a blind eye to the genocides in other countries recently. But, what would you have us do about it? should we step in and police all the hurt that is going on in the world? start more wars? guess what, that is going to take even more of our money! I'm not saying that we shouldnt do something about Darfur and Rwanda, but it seems unrealistic to me to say that you dont want taxes to go up for the wealthy, and I assume that you dont want taxes to go up for the middle class, but you want to start more wars? wars cost money - lots of it!

and I think that Biden's comment about how Obama's policies will not be popular a year from now is probably correct. That is the way of politics. If McCain is elected HIS policies wont be popular a year from now either. It really is a matter of which you consider to be a lesser of two evils. All politicians promise things that they can't deliver on. All plans sound great in theory and are usually tougher in practice. That is the truth. There is no silver bullet, neither candidate is going to just sweep in and fix the economy, the energy crisis or the health care system. And in all reality, on those issues we are probably going to end up with a policy that is somewhere in the middle between what Obama is proposing and what McCain is.

I want to say that all of this dooms day stuff is a little ridiculous, but I guess when I am being honest with myself I realize that I couldnt do that without being the pot calling the kettle black. Personally, I see a lot of dooms day outcomes if McCain is in office. Lack of support and/or funding for stem cell research, loss of abortion rights, teaching of creationism in the classroom, failure to legalize gay marraige. These are all issues that I stand behind strongly and think it would be a dark day if any of them came to pass. I guess that I care less about my pocketbook than about my daughter's right to live in a free society, free from having someone else's morals forced down her throat.

but it seems unrealistic to me to say that you dont want taxes to go up
for the wealthy, and I assume that you dont want taxes to go up for the
middle class, but you want to start more wars? wars cost money - lots
of it!

I don't see what is so unrealistic about the tax issue.  Of course you don't want to taxes to go to high.  The wealthy in this country is what creates jobs, gives to charities, and so on.  If we increase their taxes, who do you think is going to do those things.  I don't think they should get off scott free though.  However, just what will entice these people to make money?  If someone came to me and said, "you can earn $300,000 next year but the more you make the more I will take away", I would say thanks, but no thanks.  Why would I want to earn more to just have it taken away?  IMHOthis system will increase more issues than it will fix.  People will start trying to find ways to hide money, get out of paying taxes, it won't be pretty.  It also gives people nothing to look forward too.  Why would I go to school to become a doctor and make a great living to have it all sucked out.

And excuse me but I saw no where in her post stating she wanted there to be more wars.  You can have conflict resolution without wars.  If we can't then we clearly as citizens of the US have way bigger issues than our economy to worry about.

Lack of support and/or funding for stem cell research, loss of abortion
rights, teaching of creationism in the classroom, failure to legalize
gay marraige. These are all issues that I stand behind strongly and
think it would be a dark day if any of them came to pass.

These are civil issues....and quite honestly the president doens' have much control over them.  About the abortion....you wouldn't loose your rights IF it was overturned and notice I say IF really big.  I would hopt that instead of worrying about wether abortion is available to girls in the future, parents will better educate them on what they can do to avoid it.  For reasons like incest and rape, its not being taken off the table so that is a mute point.  As far as stem cell research, I think it is a great thing, but since when should it be the governments place to fund it anyway.  Its medical, not government.  ANd honestly should we create human embryos just to test it?  There has to be other ways.  This is America.  Where this is a will there is a way and they will find something else or it can be done by private funding (all those rich people thats going to be taxed?)  Gay marriage argument is old.  It should be left up to the state just like every other civil issue.  I could careless either way.  Most gay couples, at least all the ones I know don't even care about the actual marriage.  They just want to have the same rights as a married couple.  Maybe we should be more worried about that instead.

Lack of support and/or funding for stem cell research, loss of abortion
rights, teaching of creationism in the classroom, failure to legalize
gay marraige. These are all issues that I stand behind strongly and
think it would be a dark day if any of them came to pass.

I think thats the same thing we would all like, but unfortunately with government thats a make beleive world.  Democrats have different opinions than republicans and vice-versa.  Why should your morals and beliefs be shoved down my throat?  Not saying that I do by any means, but what if I don't want abortions, or stem cell research, or gay marriage, or I do want creationism taught to my child in school.  Why should my morals and beliefs not prevail and yours should?

**Disclaimer: to avoid any more personal conclict, please note that when I use "you" and "yours" it is in general terms.  I am not attacking you!

[megamay]

but it seems unrealistic to me to say that you dont want taxes to go up
for the wealthy, and I assume that you dont want taxes to go up for the
middle class, but you want to start more wars? wars cost money - lots
of it!

I don't see what is so unrealistic about the tax issue.  Of course you don't want to taxes to go to high.  The wealthy in this country is what creates jobs, gives to charities, and so on.  If we increase their taxes, who do you think is going to do those things.  I don't think they should get off scott free though.  However, just what will entice these people to make money?  If someone came to me and said, "you can earn $300,000 next year but the more you make the more I will take away", I would say thanks, but no thanks.  Why would I want to earn more to just have it taken away?  IMHOthis system will increase more issues than it will fix.  People will start trying to find ways to hide money, get out of paying taxes, it won't be pretty.  It also gives people nothing to look forward too.  Why would I go to school to become a doctor and make a great living to have it all sucked out.

And excuse me but I saw no where in her post stating she wanted there to be more wars.  You can have conflict resolution without wars.  If we can't then we clearly as citizens of the US have way bigger issues than our economy to worry about.

she didnt say more wars, and I dont really believe that anyone would want more wars, just that the comment about America turning a blind eye to genocide seemed to need to be addressed, that we cant really fix everything and if we did, it would cost more money, which would mean higher taxes.

Conflict resolution without wars would be great, but that isnt realistic either, if it were then why are we in a war right now? If we want to stop the genocide in Darfur, chances are that we are going to get in another war there. The factions don't really seem amenable to sitting down and talking nicely. And that is just one example.

I think that people in the higher tax brackets already find ways to hide money and get out of paying taxes, that is kind of the point. There are so many loopholes and 'tax shelters' that rich people use to get out of paying taxes on all of their income. They dont just make a salary of $300k a year, they also have real estate and investments and all that stuff, and they find ways to make that money work for them without paying taxes on it. It happens now! I dont think that anyone is talking about taxing the rich so that working more won't get you more money. Doctors will still make more money, they will just pay a little higher percentage.

And talking about giving to charities is all well and good, but that STILL leaves out the middle class. There are a lot of people out there who don't qualify for charity or welfare, but are barely making ends meet.

Lack of support and/or funding for stem cell research, loss of abortion
rights, teaching of creationism in the classroom, failure to legalize
gay marraige. These are all issues that I stand behind strongly and
think it would be a dark day if any of them came to pass.

These are civil issues....and quite honestly the president doens' have much control over them.  About the abortion....you wouldn't loose your rights IF it was overturned and notice I say IF really big.  I would hopt that instead of worrying about wether abortion is available to girls in the future, parents will better educate them on what they can do to avoid it.  For reasons like incest and rape, its not being taken off the table so that is a mute point.  As far as stem cell research, I think it is a great thing, but since when should it be the governments place to fund it anyway.  Its medical, not government.  ANd honestly should we create human embryos just to test it?  There has to be other ways.  This is America.  Where this is a will there is a way and they will find something else or it can be done by private funding (all those rich people thats going to be taxed?)  Gay marriage argument is old.  It should be left up to the state just like every other civil issue.  I could careless either way.  Most gay couples, at least all the ones I know don't even care about the actual marriage.  They just want to have the same rights as a married couple.  Maybe we should be more worried about that instead.

I disagree with the statement that it is a BIG if. I know what you are implying (that roe v wade will never be overturned) and I fully admit that this is part of my own personal doomsday belief but there will be openings on the supreme court in the near future, probably in this next presidential term. Placement of one or more conservative Justices (which is done by the President) could very well change a lot of civil issues, including abortion. A majority conservative Court would almost certainly see these same issues raised again as there are still a lot of people out there who are not happy with the way things are now. Just ask the abortion protesters that I pass EVER DAY on my way to work. and blame them for why this issue is on my mind all the time. I was merely making a comparison to the doomsday talk about Obama being Hitler. If we all become complacent and assume that Roe V Wade will never be overturned, that is when it will come up and bite us.  As for marraige or same rights for gay couples. I agree, personally I dont really care either way. In my opinion, if you can find a church to marry you then you can consider yourself married and who cares what the state says about it as long as you get the same rights. BUT, I am not gay so I can't really testify to how I would see it if I were in that position.

Lack of support and/or funding for stem cell research, loss of abortion
rights, teaching of creationism in the classroom, failure to legalize
gay marraige. These are all issues that I stand behind strongly and
think it would be a dark day if any of them came to pass.

I think thats the same thing we would all like, but unfortunately with government thats a make beleive world.  Democrats have different opinions than republicans and vice-versa.  Why should your morals and beliefs be shoved down my throat?  Not saying that I do by any means, but what if I don't want abortions, or stem cell research, or gay marriage, or I do want creationism taught to my child in school.  Why should my morals and beliefs not prevail and yours should?

Actually, that is exactly my point. If *I* want to go have an abortion, I dont think you should have anything to say about it. If *I* am gay and want to be married, I dont think that you should have anything to say about it, it's my business. Stem cell research just seems like a win win situation to me, I dont even see where the problem is, unless we are talking about creating embryos to test on, but I dont even think that is necessary, if I want to have an abortion and donate the fetus, or if I want to donate extra embryos that I didnt use for my fertility treatments then I dont see how that is of any concern to anyone else either. Creationism in school? that goes to separation of church and state. I just plain don't want my child subjected to any religious schooling in public school. Evolution is a science, it should be taught in biology classes (along with comment about the possibilities of inaccuracy and all those other scientific things).

*
*Disclaimer: to avoid any more personal conclict, please note that when I use "you" and "yours" it is in general terms.  I am not attacking you!

totally agree - I did not mean to come across as attacking. I love, and truly believe (well except for the death part maybe) the quote: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "
Voltaire

[Jenn Kellams]

totally agree - I did not mean to come across as attacking. I love, and truly believe (well except for the death part maybe) the quote: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "
Voltaire

I love that quote!  I am writing that one down!

[Pegster]

 If the unnamed whomevers are going to generate a crisis to test the new US president, then they will do it whomever gets elected. 

I agree with you on this. if wont make a difference who it is. We need change!

[Queen Mum]

 Remember that movie "WAG THE DOG"?


The movie starts with a scandal at the White House where The President is accused of fondling a young girl scout visiting the Oval Office just a few weeks before an election. Being the third party observers, we know the truth, he's guilty. Robert DeNiro plays "Conrad Brean" the spin doctor who's job it is to engineer a way and a means to divert the news of the scandal. He brings in Hollywood producer Stanley Motts played by Dustin Hoffman to create an artificial for television only war to distract the American public and let the President get on with the job at hand, protecting the free world.

We, like the American public, get caught up in the events of a fictional war produced in the basement of the White House with computers and blue screens, actors and scenarios. Soon they even release a mental patient who once served in the military because he has the right last name, "Shoe" to portray a war hero of the conflict. They release him because they have a show song from a nostalgic old tune that contains his name, a war tune now to drum up sympathy and national support for the war effort. It doesn't take ten minutes of the movie before we, like the cast of characters and the public in the movie have forgotten about the young girl in the oval office.

In the end, the movie ends with tragic comedy. We see our new heroes dead and our illusions, that all we see and hear on television news is true, have also been killed.

[writerlady]

 One of my all time favorite movies - I think of it often when I read/hear the news!

[Pegster]

 Themom,

It is really stretching it to compare what Hitler did to the Jews to what Obama plans to do with regards to taxes for the wealthy in this country.  In fact, it's stretching it beyond credible.  I'm well aware of what Hitler actually did.  I'm one of those non-Jews that he would of gassed for being of impure race.  To say that Obama is like Hitler because he wants to increase taxes on the wealthy is insulting to those that he actually killed!!




This is just too crazy here now. I think I read somewehre that you should never discuss politics and religion..I agree that this is totally stretching to beyond credible. Why do people have to try to offend others about who they believe in. We all have our opinions and we have that right. Not everyone is going to agree on who would be the best president.  I having been following this election very closely and very PROUD to say that I am working at our OBAMA headquarters. I am proud of what he stands for, his calm, cool approach on things. unlike McAngry..opps Mccain.  We need new young fresh ideas and I for one am not ready for 4 more years of bulls@#(#.  McCain has some good ideas, but I also agree with Collin Powell..reagarding his decision making..Sarah Palin???? What the heck was that man thinking?? If he wanted to turn the tables and get those Hilary votes...it did bite him in the rear..cuz it didn't work for him sadly. She is only dragging him down quickly. ok I am rambling and could go on an don forever...all I have to say I am for HOPE & CHANGE!! GO OBAMA!!!

[Pegster]

 I am sorry to post again, but I don't understand this

OK, let's be real here, the poor don't pay taxes.  That's why we have all these exemptions, child credits, etc. in place.  I know people in that bottom bracket - they get back way more than they ever paid in that year.  Every year.  Fine, whatever, I don't really care, exception that those are the people, the people getting back more taxes than they paid in (which is my definition of not paying taxes), who are going to vote in Obama because he is going to give them "tax breaks."  What, he's giving them back even more money every year?  More of the money that I'm paying in?  Because we don't get back near what we pay in (and that's fine, because I don't mind paying my share of taxes).


I am poor...I make only 3,000 over the poverty level each year. And yes I PAY TAXES...just like everyone else. Yes I do get a nice refund every year, but I work my butt off doing two jobs and supporting my son, buying a house, and just trying to live paycheck to the next. Why would you think that this money is money you are paying in?? I pay a lot of tax money and I deserve what I get back. And..I don't even get half of what I pay in either. So where is the comparison??

[allysonc]

 I 100 percent agree with Jenni. I'm pissed that obama is going to rais taxes when he is in office.. I wish mccain would win. he's better then obama.. though I'm pissed at how mccain has run his election. Whoever his staff is for his whole campaign are IDIOTS.. He needed to be like Regan and talk to the fellow americans and do well at those debates. Stead of saying the same old things over and over.. He needed to talk about how to fix economy/etc etc. About the taxes.. You can't raise taxes on the rich.. The middle class/rich people are the ones who create businesses and creat jobs for alot of people. When you raise the taxes.. People get laided off.. So when Obama is in office. More and more people are going to not have jobs. Who knows what is going to happen when obama wins.. It is so terrible to think about. My parents we're like we should move to ireland or somewhere and create a business there. Alot of people who have/could create hundreds of jobs are leaving/moving to other countries because of the economy and worry about obama will run this nation.  Bush had to deal with 9/11 it was all put on him cause clinton/gore didn't do shit to fix things.  Mccain/palin needed to do more things to get people to vote for them sooner.. Why didn't he get romney/gulliani to talk for him on the campaign trail? Obama has had alot of people go out and help get the word out.. Just poor campaign ideas.. It's a shame.. So upsetting.

[allysonc]

Oh yeah I am tired of people depending on welfare *ok some people DO have a hard time getting a job/finding work so I can understand* but alot of people don't even try. Why should people who go to work/work hard have to "spread the wealth* and alot of people who don't work just want to live on welfare and do nothing. That isn't fair or right. It's bull shit.

I'm sure alot of people are going to disagree with what I am posting on both my posts.. but it's just how i'm feeling.. I am enjoying talking about this and hearing everyone's opinions whether or not I agree with them.

[Pegster]

 We are going to be in a world of hurt if Mccains wins...and a worse world of hurt if he kicks the bucket and we have the bimbo as commander in chief....ouch ouch..

[gonecamping]

 I am sorry to post again, but I don't understand this

OK, let's be real here, the poor don't pay taxes.  That's why we have all these exemptions, child credits, etc. in place.  I know people in that bottom bracket - they get back way more than they ever paid in that year.  Every year.  Fine, whatever, I don't really care, exception that those are the people, the people getting back more taxes than they paid in (which is my definition of not paying taxes), who are going to vote in Obama because he is going to give them "tax breaks."  What, he's giving them back even more money every year?  More of the money that I'm paying in?  Because we don't get back near what we pay in (and that's fine, because I don't mind paying my share of taxes).


I am poor...I make only 3,000 over the poverty level each year. And yes I PAY TAXES...just like everyone else. Yes I do get a nice refund every year, but I work my butt off doing two jobs and supporting my son, buying a house, and just trying to live paycheck to the next. Why would you think that this money is money you are paying in?? I pay a lot of tax money and I deserve what I get back. And..I don't even get half of what I pay in either. So where is the comparison??

Here is an example of people not paying taxes.. My brothers girlfriend works full time, just above minimum wage.  She made around $15,000 last year. I do her taxes so I know her income. She had around $1,000 held out in taxes from her paycheck. She claimed earned income credit on 2 of her kids who are 16 and 18 (18 yr old was still in high school). Her tax refund was $5500. so she got $4500 handed to her that she didn't pay in. Now, this is the kind of thing that is infuriating. Then her 18 yr old who works as well, ends up pregnant. I do her taxes as well. She owed $300 or so becuas she didn't have any taxes withheld from her paychecks. They decide that she isn't going to file the return because this next year she will be able to claim earned income credit based off the baby and her being a single mom, low income. If Obama gets into office, those earned income credits are going up and people who don't pay taxes will get even bigger checks. The reason my brother and his girlfriend don't get married?? Why should they. They would lose that earned income credit! Plus her medical card for the kids, the food stamps she gets, ect...
And there are millions like her. Apparently 40% of the people under Obama's $250,000 cap don't pay any taxes. At least thats the figures I heard. Why should they get these huge refunds? They didn't pay anything to begin with!

[megamay]

 oh I really shouldnt be writing this, this late and after a couple glasses of wine, but I *think* that the earned income credit for children that you are talking about was implemented by the repulicans under Bush.

Secondly, I am certain that the 40% of people who make under $250000 not paying taxes is incorrect. the group of people who make under $250000 includes BOTH lower class low income people and the VAST middle class. Sure, there are plenty of people like yourbrother's girlfriend who get more money back than they put in, but there are plenty of people like me who make $70k and pay 30% in taxes and get very little back. Do I like the fact that my money is going to people who dont work hard? no, but there are always going to be people who work the system. Americans are not going to let single mothers and their kids be out on the streets, that is just the way our country works. So those people are going to get SOME kind of public assitance. either way - tax breaks, food stamps, welfare - we the middle class tax payers are still going to be paying for it.

 as for the marraige penalty - well that's another issue. I really think that there should be some tax BREAK rather than a penalty for people who are married, maybe it would encourage family values in this country, but like I said - different issue.

[megamay]

 and here is a site that has been mentioned before, and is impartial, and what they have to say about these facts:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... wrong.html

[Pegster]

 I am sorry to post again, but I don't understand this

OK, let's be real here, the poor don't pay taxes.  That's why we have all these exemptions, child credits, etc. in place.  I know people in that bottom bracket - they get back way more than they ever paid in that year.  Every year.  Fine, whatever, I don't really care, exception that those are the people, the people getting back more taxes than they paid in (which is my definition of not paying taxes), who are going to vote in Obama because he is going to give them "tax breaks."  What, he's giving them back even more money every year?  More of the money that I'm paying in?  Because we don't get back near what we pay in (and that's fine, because I don't mind paying my share of taxes).


I am poor...I make only 3,000 over the poverty level each year. And yes I PAY TAXES...just like everyone else. Yes I do get a nice refund every year, but I work my butt off doing two jobs and supporting my son, buying a house, and just trying to live paycheck to the next. Why would you think that this money is money you are paying in?? I pay a lot of tax money and I deserve what I get back. And..I don't even get half of what I pay in either. So where is the comparison??

Here is an example of people not paying taxes.. My brothers girlfriend works full time, just above minimum wage.  She made around $15,000 last year. I do her taxes so I know her income. She had around $1,000 held out in taxes from her paycheck. She claimed earned income credit on 2 of her kids who are 16 and 18 (18 yr old was still in high school). Her tax refund was $5500. so she got $4500 handed to her that she didn't pay in. Now, this is the kind of thing that is infuriating. Then her 18 yr old who works as well, ends up pregnant. I do her taxes as well. She owed $300 or so becuas she didn't have any taxes withheld from her paychecks. They decide that she isn't going to file the return because this next year she will be able to claim earned income credit based off the baby and her being a single mom, low income. If Obama gets into office, those earned income credits are going up and people who don't pay taxes will get even bigger checks. The reason my brother and his girlfriend don't get married?? Why should they. They would lose that earned income credit! Plus her medical card for the kids, the food stamps she gets, ect...
And there are millions like her. Apparently 40% of the people under Obama's $250,000 cap don't pay any taxes. At least thats the figures I heard. Why should they get these huge refunds? They didn't pay anything to begin with!

ok I understand whom you are referring too. although I will admit, when people ask me how a I get a big refund, I laugh and say cuz I am poor..it does have it advantages. but I work and pay taxes and work hard. I dont get medical card, food stamps etc..I pay for it all myself. I am just in a low income bracket.  I don't think it is fair to compare all low income people to those people who "abuse the system" like your brothers girlfriend. To sterotype people in low income bracket as welfare and such is wrong.  There are plenty others of out here that don't do that and we word hard and I know that I deserve what I get and love the earned income credit to and am happy it will be going up possibly.  I have heard the figure to be much lower than 40%. it was 25% the last I heard and I can't help but wonder how many of the very rich people cheat on their taxes

[dianagirly]

 I am sorry to post again, but I don't understand this

OK, let's be real here, the poor don't pay taxes.  That's why we have all these exemptions, child credits, etc. in place.  I know people in that bottom bracket - they get back way more than they ever paid in that year.  Every year.  Fine, whatever, I don't really care, exception that those are the people, the people getting back more taxes than they paid in (which is my definition of not paying taxes), who are going to vote in Obama because he is going to give them "tax breaks."  What, he's giving them back even more money every year?  More of the money that I'm paying in?  Because we don't get back near what we pay in (and that's fine, because I don't mind paying my share of taxes).


I am poor...I make only 3,000 over the poverty level each year. And yes I PAY TAXES...just like everyone else. Yes I do get a nice refund every year, but I work my butt off doing two jobs and supporting my son, buying a house, and just trying to live paycheck to the next. Why would you think that this money is money you are paying in?? I pay a lot of tax money and I deserve what I get back. And..I don't even get half of what I pay in either. So where is the comparison??

Here is an example of people not paying taxes.. My brothers girlfriend works full time, just above minimum wage.  She made around $15,000 last year. I do her taxes so I know her income. She had around $1,000 held out in taxes from her paycheck. She claimed earned income credit on 2 of her kids who are 16 and 18 (18 yr old was still in high school). Her tax refund was $5500. so she got $4500 handed to her that she didn't pay in. Now, this is the kind of thing that is infuriating. Then her 18 yr old who works as well, ends up pregnant. I do her taxes as well. She owed $300 or so becuas she didn't have any taxes withheld from her paychecks. They decide that she isn't going to file the return because this next year she will be able to claim earned income credit based off the baby and her being a single mom, low income. If Obama gets into office, those earned income credits are going up and people who don't pay taxes will get even bigger checks. The reason my brother and his girlfriend don't get married?? Why should they. They would lose that earned income credit! Plus her medical card for the kids, the food stamps she gets, ect...
And there are millions like her. Apparently 40% of the people under Obama's $250,000 cap don't pay any taxes. At least thats the figures I heard. Why should they get these huge refunds? They didn't pay anything to begin with!

ok I understand whom you are referring too. although I will admit, when people ask me how a I get a big refund, I laugh and say cuz I am poor..it does have it advantages. but I work and pay taxes and work hard. I dont get medical card, food stamps etc..I pay for it all myself. I am just in a low income bracket.  I don't think it is fair to compare all low income people to those people who "abuse the system" like your brothers girlfriend. To sterotype people in low income bracket as welfare and such is wrong.  There are plenty others of out here that don't do that and we word hard and I know that I deserve what I get and love the earned income credit to and am happy it will be going up possibly.  I have heard the figure to be much lower than 40%. it was 25% the last I heard andI can't help but wonder how many of the very rich people cheat on their taxes


Talk about calling the kettle black!

Anyway, interesting debates ladies. I am appalled by the words used to describe Palin though. I believe calling a successful woman a hooch is pretty much the opposite of what women's rights were all about. If she were some slut, well then she might have earned that name. I think even if you don't agree with her politics you shouldn't call her some nasty name though.
I don't agree with Obama's politics and I didn't agree with Hilary's, but I believe in offering up respect to those who work to become successful and try to change the world in a better way ( even if I do not think their ways are better ).
JMO.

[TraciL]

 very interesting posts ladies!  Gave me lost of things to think about

[Judes]

 I think Biden was just asking Obama supporters to keep the faith because he WILL be tested and his haters will try to undermine and pull him down just as soon as he gets into office.

[Pegster]

 I think Biden was just asking Obama supporters to keep the faith because he WILL be tested and his haters will try to undermine and pull him down just as soon as he gets into office.


I agree,, I too believe that is what he was asking.  As he will be tested when he gets in, although I believe that any New president whomever it maybe be would be testest also.