Information

[AnnOminous]

 And that's okay, Anne. You can follow your man all the way to the new concentration camps for "those wealthy people" who are stealing all of the poor people's money. It was the Jews in Germany, who will Obama go after in the US?

 Ummm... I don't understand.....  I am suppose to follow Obama to the new concentration camps for "those wealthy people" ummm... why?  So I can can get a job as a maid?  I only made over $50,000 a year once in my life - and it was just an itty bitty bit over.  I've never come near making $250,000 a year!!

Why are there going to be concentration camps for anyone???

Or is it that my view from the bottom is just so different than your view from the top?  Do I get to be your maid and clean your toilet while you are incarcerated?

[AnnOminous]

 jjenni08,

I know very well just how the government works with checks and balances and what each party stands for.

Your whole post reminds me of my parents saying that if Ted Kennedy became president he would sell the country to the Soviet Union....

Not sure if that was a compliment or an insult.  That post was not directed at you.  Sorry if it offended.

And everything I said as I stated before is my opinion.  Its just how I feel.

jjenni08,

If a post is not directed at me, then please don't put a previous post of mine in quotes at the top of it!!  If you quote my post, I am going to think that your post is indeed directed at me.  I think that is a pretty normal assumption to make. 

[MLee]

 Ummm... I don't understand..... I am suppose to follow Obama to the new concentration camps for "those wealthy people" ummm... why? So I can can get a job as a maid? I only made over $50,000 a year once in my life - and it was just an itty bitty bit over. I've never come near making $250,000 a year!!

Why are there going to be concentration camps for anyone???

Or is it that my view from the bottom is just so different than your view from the top? Do I get to be your maid and clean your toilet while you are incarcerated?

Ann, you are a very smart woman who has followed this campaign very closely but I will take the time to explain any way.

In pre-war Germany the economy was in a mess, there were massive layoffs and the only ones still working were those in the financial market - the Jews. Hitler used their assumed wealth, assumed because not all of them were wealthy but most were an easy target because they were "different," to whip the crowds into a frenzy. He promised "change," a better future, a war on the axis of evil (of course he wasn't talking about the mid-east now, was he? ) Does this message sound familiar at all? He got elected by those who believed themselves to be poor, but he also got elected by the "elite" liberal crowd who loved to wine and dine and show off their newest protege'. Again this story sounds realllly familiar.

By the end of the war there were more than just assumed wealthy Jews in the concentration camps as I'm sure you well know. But by the time the duped public had figured out their beloved, charismatic leader was a mad man it was too late.

So, go ahead, follow your smiling, easy talking politician whose plans have divided this country already more than any other leader in the 20th or 21st century. There is no doubt in my mind that Obama will win. America has been slowly dumbed down by schools, by television and video games and most importantly by news programs for so long that most citizens won't have clue - most don't have one now - about what is happening all around them.

BUT  - tonight you have made a lot of assumptions.

What makes you think I'm at "the top?" My husband and I have raised three kids on barely more than you claim you make in a year. We don't come close to making $100,000 in a year, much less the proverbial $250k. Just because I believe in capitalism, don't trust a person who "generates" a crisis to test his mettle and would never again place faith in anyone who does busines with the liar Colin Powell does not make me "one of them."

See how easily you are misled? It's scary, isn't it?

[Jenn Kellams]

 jjenni08,

I know very well just how the government works with checks and balances and what each party stands for.

Your whole post reminds me of my parents saying that if Ted Kennedy became president he would sell the country to the Soviet Union....

Not sure if that was a compliment or an insult.  That post was not directed at you.  Sorry if it offended.

And everything I said as I stated before is my opinion.  Its just how I feel.

jjenni08,

If a post is not directed at me, then please don't put a previous post of mine in quotes at the top of it!!  If you quote my post, I am going to think that your post is indeed directed at me.  I think that is a pretty normal assumption to make. 

Sorry I am not trying to reach a post count quota or anything and quite frankly I hate starting new comment boxes for everything l feel like saying.  Thats why there was a double space between the paragraphs. I suppose I need to clarify and say that part of the post was not directed at you.  And in all honesty I feel like I am somewhat being attacked here a bit.  I thought everyone was entitled to their opinion.  This thread didn't start as a personal attack against anyone.  Don't get angry with me because of what I say.  I was not snide in my comments nor should have been.  It's ALL opinions!  Lighten up a little!  I am not trying to persuade anyone to vote for anyone else in particular, just expressing my opinions and views the same way you are.

[dianagirly]

 It's part of the whole dang Obama campaign- be a socialist or you are part of the "problem." Sounds WAYYYYYY TOO FAMILIAR!!
 M'Lee your post gives me chills because that is exactly the awful dark fears that have been plaguing me as well!
 I do not believe in ruling with fear.  
 I will vote for the man who is PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. ( Seriously, such a good song to listen to right now! lol ) 

[AnnOminous]

 Themom,

It is really stretching it to compare what Hitler did to the Jews to what Obama plans to do with regards to taxes for the wealthy in this country.  In fact, it's stretching it beyond credible.  I'm well aware of what Hitler actually did.  I'm one of those non-Jews that he would of gassed for being of impure race.  To say that Obama is like Hitler because he wants to increase taxes on the wealthy is insulting to those that he actually killed!!

[Mom4scrappin]

 Why is it okay for Obama to tax the wealthy and give it to the poor? The wealthy have  worked for their money. I understand that some people need help at times, no problem with helping them. But I do have a problem when people who are capable of working don't and they should get free money? I have a brother who tries to take advantage of things like this and it irritates me. It is not the governments job to take care of us financially. We need people who are willing to stand up and help others. You should not force people to help otherwise it causes problems. More charities need to help out. Taxing people more is not the way to help out either, esp. in these times. Dems think that they can spend our money better than we can, so why are we in such a crunch?

[AnnOminous]

 Why is it okay for Obama to tax the wealthy and give it to the poor? The wealthy have  worked for their money. I understand that some people need help at times, no problem with helping them. But I do have a problem when people who are capable of working don't and they should get free money? I have a brother who tries to take advantage of things like this and it irritates me. It is not the governments job to take care of us financially. We need people who are willing to stand up and help others. You should not force people to help otherwise it causes problems. More charities need to help out. Taxing people more is not the way to help out either, esp. in these times. Dems think that they can spend our money better than we can, so why are we in such a crunch?

Obama is not proposing to tax the wealthy and give it to the poor.  What Obama is proposing is to tax LESS the poor and the middle class and to tax the wealthy more to make up for the lost revenue.  The only place where Obama would be really increasing tax money spent on the poor is with regards to health care - and that's not just for the poor either but anyone without health insurance.  (When somebody is sick, doesn't that count as a time when they need help, even if it is something minor?)  On the other hand, if you are doing well enough to have health insurance that is paid for (either in whole or in part) by your employer, McCain wants to add that to your taxable income. 

[koala1966]

 Why is it okay for Obama to tax the wealthy and give it to the poor? The wealthy have  worked for their money. I understand that some people need help at times, no problem with helping them. But I do have a problem when people who are capable of working don't and they should get free money? I have a brother who tries to take advantage of things like this and it irritates me. It is not the governments job to take care of us financially. We need people who are willing to stand up and help others. You should not force people to help otherwise it causes problems. More charities need to help out. Taxing people more is not the way to help out either, esp. in these times. Dems think that they can spend our money better than we can, so why are we in such a crunch?

Obama is not proposing to tax the wealthy and give it to the poor.  What Obama is proposing is to tax LESS the poor and the middle class and to tax the wealthy more to make up for the lost revenue.  The only place where Obama would be really increasing tax money spent on the poor is with regards to health care - and that's not just for the poor either but anyone without health insurance.  (When somebody is sick, doesn't that count as a time when they need help, even if it is something minor?)  On the other hand, if you are doing well enough to have health insurance that is paid for (either in whole or in part) by your employer, McCain wants to add that to your taxable income. 

OK, let's be real here, the poor don't pay taxes.  That's why we have all these exemptions, child credits, etc. in place.  I know people in that bottom bracket - they get back way more than they ever paid in that year.  Every year.  Fine, whatever, I don't really care, exception that those are the people, the people getting back more taxes than they paid in (which is my definition of not paying taxes), who are going to vote in Obama because he is going to give them "tax breaks."  What, he's giving them back even more money every year?  More of the money that I'm paying in?  Because we don't get back near what we pay in (and that's fine, because I don't mind paying my share of taxes).

I'm not wealthy - not even close.  We have a long way to go before we would ever hit that tax bracket that we're talking about here.  But that doesn't mean I begrudge those people their money.  What I don't understand is why the burden of the taxes should fall on the rich ten or twenty times harder than anyone else?  Does anyone understand percentages anymore?  If you make 50,000 a year and pay 10% taxes, you pay 5,000 taxes.  If you make 250,000 a year and pay 10% taxes (this is hypothetical), you pay 25,000 taxes.  So at the SAME percentage, by nature of percentages, the more you make the more you pay.  Now we all know those making the higher incomes DON'T pay the same percentage.  They pay anywhere upwards of 28%.  Does anyone understand that's almost 1/3 of what they make?  So now we're looking at putting the tax cap back up to 40 or 50%.  WTH should ANYONE have to give up that much of what they make?  These same high income people are the bread and butter of charities around the country.  Without their income, charities could do nothing.  As helpful as every dollar is, it's not the single dollars that are keeping them running, it's the thousands, hundreds of thousands, and millions of dollars pumped into them by the wealthy.  The wealthy - the same people who keep our businesses running and keep jobs in this country.  The same people who drop outrageous amounts of money in our retail stores (your $10 on-sale shirt isn't what keeps that department store from closing up shop).  The wealthy help our economy well before they are forced to write yet one more check at the end of the year to pay those taxes.What if you had to pay 40% of your income in taxes?  I wouldn't like it.  I don't see why anyone should ever pay more than 28% of their income in taxes, to me anything over that is unfair taxation.  JMHO.

I'm not thrilled that McCain wants to tax our health care as income, but I'd rather deal with that than with a socialist as president of our country.

I agree with TheMom's analogy - Hitler's reign started with targeting one group of people.  You think it couldn't happen again today - you think a group of people couldn't be targeted and eliminated just due to the fear and beliefs of entitlement of the masses?  Look around the world, it happens all the time.  You think it couldn't happen in this country?  I didn't think this country would use taxpayer money to bail out private corporations either, but guess what?  We just did.  Fear is a powerful weapon.

[Jenn Kellams]

OK, let's be real here, the poor don't pay taxes.  That's why we have all these exemptions, child credits, etc. in place.  I know people in that bottom bracket - they get back way more than they ever paid in that year.  Every year.  Fine, whatever, I don't really care, exception that those are the people, the people getting back more taxes than they paid in (which is my definition of not paying taxes), who are going to vote in Obama because he is going to give them "tax breaks."  What, he's giving them back even more money every year?  More of the money that I'm paying in?  Because we don't get back near what we pay in (and that's fine, because I don't mind paying my share of taxes).

I'm not wealthy - not even close.  We have a long way to go before we would ever hit that tax bracket that we're talking about here.  But that doesn't mean I begrudge those people their money.  What I don't understand is why the burden of the taxes should fall on the rich ten or twenty times harder than anyone else?  Does anyone understand percentages anymore?  If you make 50,000 a year and pay 10% taxes, you pay 5,000 taxes.  If you make 250,000 a year and pay 10% taxes (this is hypothetical), you pay 25,000 taxes.  So at the SAME percentage, by nature of percentages, the more you make the more you pay.  Now we all know those making the higher incomes DON'T pay the same percentage.  They pay anywhere upwards of 28%.  Does anyone understand that's almost 1/3 of what they make?  So now we're looking at putting the tax cap back up to 40 or 50%.  WTH should ANYONE have to give up that much of what they make?  These same high income people are the bread and butter of charities around the country.  Without their income, charities could do nothing.  As helpful as every dollar is, it's not the single dollars that are keeping them running, it's the thousands, hundreds of thousands, and millions of dollars pumped into them by the wealthy.  The wealthy - the same people who keep our businesses running and keep jobs in this country.  The same people who drop outrageous amounts of money in our retail stores (your $10 on-sale shirt isn't what keeps that department store from closing up shop).  The wealthy help our economy well before they are forced to write yet one more check at the end of the year to pay those taxes.What if you had to pay 40% of your income in taxes?  I wouldn't like it.  I don't see why anyone should ever pay more than 28% of their income in taxes, to me anything over that is unfair taxation.  JMHO.

I'm not thrilled that McCain wants to tax our health care as income, but I'd rather deal with that than with a socialist as president of our country.

I agree with TheMom's analogy - Hitler's reign started with targeting one group of people.  You think it couldn't happen again today - you think a group of people couldn't be targeted and eliminated just due to the fear and beliefs of entitlement of the masses?  Look around the world, it happens all the time.  You think it couldn't happen in this country?  I didn't think this country would use taxpayer money to bail out private corporations either, but guess what?  We just did.  Fear is a powerful weapon.

Ditto

[corriekate]

 I am LOVING this thread!  So much information is coming out of this debate.  Shows me how uninformed I really am!  Keep it coming...just keep it clean! 

[Mom4scrappin]

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[JenniferP]

 This is an extremely interesting conversation to me.  I have learned something.

I found this article, it talks about a lot.  Thought I'd share...

http://fredshelm.wordpress.com/2008/06/ ... ck-hitler/

scary thing...this election is.

[Queen Mum]

 Those comments really frighten me.   No one holding me is enough to take care of that fright.

I do not believe that the man has enough experience as a first term senator to deal with any major crisis.

[Jenn Kellams]

 Another great website is www.factcheck.org

[megamay]

 oh my gosh, I just dont even know what to say. I seriously try not to get involved in politics because it just gets me so worked up, but I know I am the minority here and I just can't stand to not have the other side spoken for, so here I go.

I just can't believe that you are all comparing Obama to Hitler! I'll give you that bad financial times helped to get Hitler into office, and I will give you that he appealed to a certain demographic, maybe the same one that Obama appeals to, but guess what, that same situation happens all the time. When the economy goes bad, people realize that they need to step up and do something so they look for someone who can change things. It is unfortunate that it seems a bad economy is the only thing that can do that, but it seems to be the case. That 'person who can change things' is not always going to be Hitler. One time, it was. Ok, maybe more than once with other dictators, but there are lots of positive examples of change too.

Change is not the enemy. In fact, if you think that things are bad right now, then change is a GOOD thing! And polls are showing that a strong majority of Americans do think that things are bad right now. (not saying that a strong majority agree on how to fix them)

Invoking the name of Hitler is just a low blow meant to incite fear and panic. We DO have checks and balances and even with a democratic congress, there are still checks and balances. a Democratic congress, no matter how loyal they are to a Democratic president is NOT going to sanction concentration camps!

And Obama is not going to create a crisis just to prove himself. Biden was implying that SOMEONE -either terrorists or another country- might do that. He didnt mean that Obama was going to start it! And wanting to choose the president based on what a terrorist group might do, is just letting them win! We DO NOT negotiate with terrorists, so why should we let them pick our president?

As for the tax thing, welfare exists in this country and is abused in this country and that is not going away any time soon. I agree that something needs to be done to fix the abuse, but that isnt the issue here. We are talking about who should shoulder the load. Right now I am solidly middle class and working my tail off to make ends meet. I could really use a tax cut. BUT, I intend to be approaching that upper limit after my DH graduates school in 5+ years, and then I am planning to make up for all the time I have spent cutting corners, not donating to charities and stuff like that. Seems to me that giving lower earning people a break when they need it most is pretty much in line with my own goals. And I really need a break right now! Do I want to be giving to someone abusing the system? no, but that is a differnet issue. no one is talking about doing away with welfare, maybe they should, but they arent. So the issue here is with a given cost, who is better equipped to pay for it? In my opinion, that will be the future me and not the current me.

so if you want to talk about taking from the rich to give to the poor, then you really want to be talking about abolishing the welfare system entirely, putting all those people out on the streets, oh and while we are at it, why dont we FORCE everyone to have kids that they dont want and can't afford and put THEM out on the streets too. Sounds like a plan to me.

[corriekate]

 why dont we FORCE everyone to have kids that they dont want and can't afford and put THEM out on the streets too. Sounds like a plan to me.

While I don't want to get in to a debate about Pregnancies related to forced intercourse...I will on the point where you said CANT AFFORD...

If you can't afford to deal with the consequences you shouldn't be "playing" in the first place.  Being able to afford something is not a reason to KILL it.

[megamay]

 why dont we FORCE everyone to have kids that they dont want and can't afford and put THEM out on the streets too. Sounds like a plan to me.

While I don't want to get in to a debate about Pregnancies related to forced intercourse...I will on the point where you said CANT AFFORD...

If you can't afford to deal with the consequences you shouldn't be "playing" in the first place.  Being able to afford something is not a reason to KILL it.

I agree about the playing and consequences part anyway, but we dont live in a perfect world. There are TONS of people out there who dont think about it and do it anyway. You are not going to be able to stop them. It shouldnt be used as birth control but short of forced sterilization, I dont really see how we as tax payers can NOT be forced to deal with the consequences of other people's irresponsible choices.

Abstinence might be the best policy but it just isnt realistic.

[JenniferP]

I just can't believe that you are all comparing Obama to Hitler! I'll give you that bad financial times helped to get Hitler into office, and I will give you that he appealed to a certain demographic, maybe the same one that Obama appeals to, but guess what, that same situation happens all the time. When the economy goes bad, people realize that they need to step up and do something so they look for someone who can change things. It is unfortunate that it seems a bad economy is the only thing that can do that, but it seems to be the case. That 'person who can change things' is not always going to be Hitler. One time, it was. Ok, maybe more than once with other dictators, but there are lots of positive examples of change too.

I don't think it's because he wants change, but how he wants to change things.  And right now he's putting everything against Mr Rich Man that makes $250,000 a year which is singling out a specific group of people (which by the way, who came up with this "magic" number? To me, rich = million plus at least, because you know he's not taking that much home and money just doesn't go as far anymore).  And the more I hear this statement - penalizing the successful person - the more I agree.  If I ever get to make that much, I surely don't want to give near half of it to the government - I would have worked my butt off to get to that point, please don't punish me for it. 

I am almost to the point where I think there should be little to no taxes and there should be no federal government.  I am starting to dispise all politicians because they're only looking out for themselves and finding ways to keep their day jobs.  And I am also starting to believe there should be term limits for all politicians - the senators and representatives that have been there forever seem to forget who they are representing and lose their morals. 

And Corrie, I love your statement about not playing in the game - that was wonderfully put.  My views on abortion have drastically changed this election cycle - not that I was ever really for it - I just almost didn't have an opinion unless it applied to me.  Maybe it's the election cycle, maybe it's the fact that I finally have my own gorgeous baby, but I have changed a lot.  I think adoption needs to be made easier and should be implemented in cases where a mother doesn't want a baby - there are plenty of people who would love to have a child, but can't and would adopt a baby.

[MLee]

Themom,

It is really stretching it to compare what Hitler did to
the Jews to what Obama plans to do with regards to taxes for the
wealthy in this country.  In fact, it's stretching it beyond credible. 
I'm well aware of what Hitler actually did.  I'm one of those non-Jews
that he would of gassed for being of impure race.  To say that Obama is
like Hitler because he wants to increase taxes on the wealthy is
insulting to those that he actually killed!!

No Ann et al, it is not insulting. What would be insulting to them is not to learn from the mistake made against them and allow it to happen again. It already has happened again in other parts of the world and the US has turned a blind eye to it. Do you honestly believe Americans are so much smarter and well educated that they couldn't be duped? LOL, I don't think so.

The policies and politics of Obama, his sudden rise to power, his campaign funding by the rich celebrity and his castigating of the so-called working wealthy all follow exactly the same pattern.

For Joe Biden to say that Obama's policies will not be popular a year from now is more on the mark than many of you realize. He spoke the the truth for the first time in this election.

Again, I have no doubt that he will be the next President... I've studied politics for 30 years and I've seen them come and go. I'm merely speculating about what will happen after he's elected if Americans do not open their eyes...