ACOT Message Board

I put this in the general debate category because I have a feeling I might be causing some inflammation here, but I really would like to know.....


I started out as a paper scrapper, and was fascinated by the digital layout I saw. Not quite 2 years ago, I dipped my toes into the digital waters and never really looked back. I still do paper crafting, but rarely post them as I hate the process of taking pictures of them and posting. But I still buy paper, and heaven knows I have a huge stash of digital kits and supplies.



There are many people like me who started out paper and went digital, people who still create beautiful layouts both in paper and the digital side, and those who are strictly paper. I personally find inspiration from all work, not just digital. Some techniques translate well between the two, some less so, but I believe that both offer wonderful options, and after all, the preservation of memories and events and all that applies to both styles of scrapping.



My question is this.... is there more of a divide between digital and paper than I believed, or am I just naive? The posting of the guest designer challenges this month excludes digital layouts, and I will admit this leaves a sour taste in my mouth, particularly in the aftermath of all the changes that have happened. I talked to Heidi and she was unaware of the way the challenges were posted, but said they don't police the challenges themselves. Am I wrong to be feeling very excluded and looked down upon because I choose to scrap with a computer rather than paper? If it weren't for the computer and the internet, this site and business wouldn't even exist, so we all are computer saavy to some degree!



Thoughts?

I agree Nancy, it is all the preservation of our memories, no matter how we choose to do it. I do not scrap digitally, but I have lifted layouts from there to paper. I too thought scrapping was scrapping. I would feel left out if it were digital only. I feel it should be open to all, and especially since it is us cherries who have the challenges continued, so we SHOULD be considerate of everyone. I would be curious to know why she chose that no digital would be allowed. As I said before, I am paper only but my challenges are open to all forms.

When I saw "Pet Challenge," I was thrilled! My heart drooped when I read "NO DIGITAL." That is the reason I also use other scrapbooking sites that cater to digital scrappers; I feel so welcome. I always use ACOT, too, because it is my NUMBER 1 site, my home. I feel like I arrived home but the door is locked tightly. I have HUNDREDS of paper layouts--maybe close to a thousand since the early eighties. I need to digitally scrap because the huge albums take up too much space!! Oh! I also scrap digitally, print, then add pp, sp, alpha, and embellies to = 12 x 12. Yes, this is a real turn off--poopie!:?

I've never entered a challenge of any kind. I think about it from time to time, but just never really got into the idea. That being said, I can think of no reason why challenges wouldn't be open to both kinds of scrapping. Both forms of scrapping involve artistic expression, creative knowlege, creative energy and a heartfelt desire to preserve a memory. The digital scrapper struggles with placement of elements just as a paper scrapper would. The paper scrapper struggles with what shades of colors to use just as a digital scrapper would. The only reason I can think that they should not be grouped together for a challenge is if there is some sort of "technical advantage" to the digi scrapper. And I don't even know what that would be. Maybe a fancy shading technique or lighting effect . . . I don't know. Can a digital scrapper really have any sort of advantage over a paper scrapper (besides time)? I don't think so. but, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the hostess will explain that for us.

I'm a paper scrapper. I have no interest in digital scrapping, but not for the reason most people would think. I simply don't want to be attached to another electronic "thing". When I was working I was at the computer. When I'm entering/preparing/submitting class information for our homeschooling, I'm on the computer. When dd needs her pictures uploaded from her digital camera, I'm on the computer. For me, when I have free time, the last place I want to be is on the computer for any long stretch of time.

For me - I need the touch of the paper and handling things. I'm very very tactile.

I've seen amazingly lovely digi - but they just don't have "IT" for me.

It would be great if I could change the shade of a paper or element to suit what I'm working on - but I also like the challenge of finding stuff that works

Besides, I'd find it too hard to get them all printed out and put in an album.

Queen Mum wrote:For me - I need the touch of the paper and handling things. I'm very very tactile.

I've seen amazingly lovely digi - but they just don't have "IT" for me.

It would be great if I could change the shade of a paper or element to suit what I'm working on - but I also like the challenge of finding stuff that works

Besides, I'd find it too hard to get them all printed out and put in an album.

And I totally respect that. For me, in a small house with limited space and a lot of people, simply having the space to paper scrap is an issue. But my question is....is there more of a divide in attitudes between the two "worlds" than I realize, am I just naive to a riff that has been there all along? I tend to miss all the drama at work because I simply choose not to get involved in it....I'm just not interested in it But is there a division between paper and digital of which I am unaware? I thought we were all SCRAPPERS...our method of scrapping varies as much as the styles we scrap with and the subjects we choose to scrap. Am I wrong?

The prize winner is to be chosen randomly, so there is no possibility of a digi technique giving someone an advantage.

The only reason I can see for excluding digi is that if the winner is a digi scrapper then they are more likely to use the $5 prize gift certificate on a digi kit. The prize winner would have a huge variety of digi kits to choose from and most of them could be purchased with the $5 prize money.

On the other hand, a paper scrapper isn't going to get that much in the way of supplies with that $5. A paper scrapper is much more likely to use that prize money for a discount on a $50 or more order.

So the bottom line is economics. The store is way more likely to make a profit and a much bigger profit if is the prize winner is a paper scrapper. They could even loose money with a digi scrapper winner who uses the prize to just get a free kit as they would still be paying the digi designer.

AnnOminous wrote:The prize winner is to be chosen randomly, so there is no possibility of a digi technique giving someone an advantage.

The only reason I can see for excluding digi is that if the winner is a digi scrapper then they are more likely to use the $5 prize gift certificate on a digi kit. The prize winner would have a huge variety of digi kits to choose from and most of them could be purchased with the $5 prize money.

On the other hand, a paper scrapper isn't going to get that much in the way of supplies with that $5. A paper scrapper is much more likely to use that prize money for a discount on a $50 or more order.

So the bottom line is economics. The store is way more likely to make a profit and a much bigger profit if is the prize winner is a paper scrapper. They could even loose money with a digi scrapper winner who uses the prize to just get a free kit as they would still be paying the digi designer.

I see your point. For me, I make small purchases of paper product as well, but that's becuase I live close and so don't pay shipping. I buy more than $5 at once with digi because I'm too cheap to pay the premium fee for a small order of less than $5! lol

AnnOminous wrote:The prize winner is to be chosen randomly, so there is no possibility of a digi technique giving someone an advantage.

The only reason I can see for excluding digi is that if the winner is a digi scrapper then they are more likely to use the $5 prize gift certificate on a digi kit. The prize winner would have a huge variety of digi kits to choose from and most of them could be purchased with the $5 prize money.

On the other hand, a paper scrapper isn't going to get that much in the way of supplies with that $5. A paper scrapper is much more likely to use that prize money for a discount on a $50 or more order.

So the bottom line is economics. The store is way more likely to make a profit and a much bigger profit if is the prize winner is a paper scrapper. They could even loose money with a digi scrapper winner who uses the prize to just get a free kit as they would still be paying the digi designer.

But I also think of this... the monthly challenges that are hosted by board members have prizes that are being donated by the hosts themselves, out of the generosity of their own hearts and wallets. Obviously, if they are footing the bill, they can choose their own rules. The same for this...if ACOT is providing the prize, I can see THEM setting the rules, which is why I wondered if Kristin and Heidi were aware of it. So I guess I'm also curious as to who is footing the bill for these prizes? Because the ones that are provided by board members themselves are paid for by the board members, thus ACOT still makes money.

As a former Digi CT member, I can tell you there has always been a divide between paper and digi scrappers. On the digi CT we always did our best to make challenges for both sides, because if we didn't there were people who would be aggravated. It doesn't seem to matter when it is the other way, though. ACOT doesn't make as much from the digi folks, so they don't really worry if we are upset. I would say the fact that the guest designer challenges say no digital has to do with her wanting to see only paper scrapping and supporting ACOT that way.


As for the other challenges, it is definitely beneficial to ACOT that we are supplying the prizes. It brings traffic here and they are not paying for the prizes. I understand this is a business and they have done what they think is best for business, but it still makes me sad.

Art_Teacher wrote:As a former Digi CT member, I can tell you there has always been a divide between paper and digi scrappers. On the digi CT we always did our best to make challenges for both sides, because if we didn't there were people who would be aggravated. It doesn't seem to matter when it is the other way, though. ACOT doesn't make as much from the digi folks, so they don't really worry if we are upset. I would say the fact that the guest designer challenges say no digital has to do with her wanting to see only paper scrapping and supporting ACOT that way.


As for the other challenges, it is definitely beneficial to ACOT that we are supplying the prizes. It brings traffic here and they are not paying for the prizes. I understand this is a business and they have done what they think is best for business, but it still makes me sad.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I myself don't see any divide among the Cherries between paper and digi scrappers. As you all know I scrap both paper and digi and the comments I get in my gallery on both my paper and digi layouts equally come from both paper and digi scrappers. I honestly don't find a divide at all. In fact, I see a lot of paper scrappers compliment the digi scrappers on the boards. And I also find a lot of digi scrappers compliment the paper scrappers. My monthly challenge is ALWAYS open to both paper and digi, as the whole purpose of the challenge is to give inspiration and I want everyone to be able to play. If one of my challenges seems to be easier for the digi girls to do, I will always offer a way that the paper scrappers can do it with paper. You can always come up with a workaround. My March Graphic Design Challenge is a perfect example of that, and I was so happy to find a lot of paper scrappers participate in that one. Yes, digi has some advantages over paper, but paper has the advantage of being truly dimensional. They both have their advantages and limitations. So however one choses to scrap, in the end we all end up with the same result... a scrapbook page that preserves a memory that is very dear to us. Doesn't matter how we made it... it is our own creation. And from my own experiences here I have always gotten that feeling with the Cherries.

As for the $5 gift card prize... yes someone can buy a whole digi kit for that or less, but then again it costs a lot less to build a digi stash to begin with. I don't mind if a digi or paper gal wins the $5 gift card from one of my challenges. I am just happy that they won it!

I wanted to add that Monique has changed her guidelines for the challenges and included digital, and I want to thank her for that. We are a community, of ALL of us, and I"m so glad to see everyone included now!

Ayla wrote:I wanted to add that Monique has changed her guidelines for the challenges and included digital, and I want to thank her for that. We are a community, of ALL of us, and I"m so glad to see everyone included now!

I saw that too and am very happy! Thanks Monique!

Wow, this is sad..... I am a paper scrapper. I played with digi a bit and just decided I prefer my emblies, scissors, paper! LOL When Digi was first introduce here at ACOT, it is my opinion it was added because digital scrapping was becoming more and more popular and ACOT seemed to want to keep up with current trends. However, I felt initially that paper folks were being pushed aside. There was a huge influx of digi designers and the board predominantly was mostly threads from the digi world. Yeah, there was some tense times, but it eventually smoothed out.


I enjoy seeing all work in the gallery and have seen some digital layouts that have been good inspiration for something I wanted to do. I am good friends with Art_Teacher and can tell you she is so Bi-scraptural! She does beautiful work on both sides of the craft. Her studio has loads of paper craft supplies and her computer has loads of digi kits......


I do hope that those that offer challenges would consider keeping it open to both types of scrapping. In deciding a winner, isn't it by random number gen anyway, so what should it matter? JMO here on that thought.

(This is not a answer to your question Nancy, just a thought!):winkb: When I started hosting the supply challenge I was afraid that I would be excluding you amazing digi girls. I'm just not that familiar with what comes in your digi kits. I hope in the future you will let me know that out of the 10 elements listed in the challenge that you have most of them to chose from!!

Now this thread my be a good way to get us paper peeps to understand a bit more about digi and the types of elements available to do a layout.

Nancy, I've kind of always had those same questions. I started paper and continue paper, but have also added digi. I always thought digi was more advanced and in a league of it's own, but once I started, I realized it's all scrapping. I know that digi offers more flexibility than paper with the ability to change colors, sizes, etc, and didn't think it was fair to compare paper to digi layouts. So I looked into the challenges and learned that winners are random, this changed my outlook on the challenges.


With the message boards that I frequent, I think that if you started out digi, you tend to put digi on a whole different level than paper (not to put anyone down, that's not my point here, just trying to point out the outlook differences that I've noticed), but people that start paper and migrate to digi seem to have a different outlook on paper scrappers, they can understand and appreciate what digi offers over paper. I'm not trying to sound negative towards any one side, just trying to get across that I think outlooks are different based on where the scrapper started out... JMTC.



And I'm glad the challenges were updated to include digi:-D

I so hope I didn't offend anyone with my Die Cut challenge by only allowing paper and hybrid scrappers to participate. I didn't know of anyway to allow digital to participate in the die cut challenge. If there is a way, please let me know.
Donna

Indy Scrapper wrote:Now this thread my be a good way to get us paper peeps to understand a bit more about digi and the types of elements available to do a layout.

I'm still learning digital too, and really don't have a good concept on how to alter colors of papers or elements. So I personally am limited to the colors of a kit just as a paper scrapper is limited to the colors of a line of paper. I will admit that changing the size of elements is really nice, and if you "cut" a paper, you can always click the undo button and your paper is "whole" again, which obviously you can't do with real paper. And being able to take my laptop with me is nice, where with paper you have to pack a whole slew of stuffs. The tough part is not having something in hand right away, making the discipline to simply get them printed. But again, an upside is that I've done layouts in digital that I never would have "wasted" the paper to make, and they have turned out to be some of my favorite layouts! And I too, get tons of inspiration from paper layouts...from colors to layout arrangements to how to pu tthings together. I admire many of you paper scrappers....my layouts never seemed very good when I was using paper. Maybe time would have taught me the things I've learned anyway, whether I stayed exclusively paper or ventured in digi as I have. Truthfully....I love both worlds!