ACOT Message Board

While waiting for my P.T. appointment today, I was thumbing through an old Newsweek and found an article about Pro-Life/Pro-Choice. I'm putting this in debate because of the question it asks that I'm asking you: If the fetus you save is gay, will you still fight for it's rights? While I, personally, can't imagine a circumstance where I'd have an abortion, I'm totally Pro-Choice, just in case you're wondering.

JeanG wrote:While waiting for my P.T. appointment today, I was thumbing through an old Newsweek and found an article about Pro-Life/Pro-Choice. I'm putting this in debate because of the question it asks that I'm asking you: If the fetus you save is gay, will you still fight for it's rights? While I, personally, can't imagine a circumstance where I'd have an abortion, I'm totally Pro-Choice, just in case you're wondering.

I'm so confused. You mean, if you don't have an abortion, and that child turns out to be a homosexual, would you fight for it's rights, for what? Homosexuality, or Pro-life/Choice?

Joey - The question came about in the magazine because, I think, it was assuming most Pro-Lifers were strong Christians - that's what I got out of the article. It was assuming that Pro-Lifers are also Anti-Gay,from the way I read it. I can say, from my own experience with family and friends, that's mainly true - but it's just my OWN experience. So, if you're Pro-Life, you've fought someone to NOT have an abortion...then the child grows up to be gay. Will you still stand up for the person's rights when you find out it's gay as you did when you got the Mom to not have the abortion? Or does the fetus you saved from being aborted now no longer have you fighting for it's rights as a gay person. And now that I'm thinking about the article, I'm going to have to re-read it Thursday in P.T. so I can make sure that what I got out of the article was correct...and find what issue the article was in.

Ok, I'm neither Christian or would I ever try and talk someone out of or into an abortion, that is me. However, I am a minister, so if I were speaking to someone that thought of having an abortion, I would give options, etc. Because that is what I am trained to do. If that person decided of their own free will, NOT to have the abortion, and that CHILD grew up to be gay, I would worry more about the person that made the decision to keep/not to keep the baby, then I would about my thoughts. Know what I mean? That mother would have to bare those thoughts, and those "demons" everyday of their life, with "What if's" etc. So I would worry more over her then my own thoughts on the subject.

I would consider myself a Christian because I totally believe we are created by a higher power, as we are far too complex to have "evolved" by accident. I am not a regular church goer however, because of issues I have with much "organized" religion. I believe that the right to abortion should not be taken away however, because as I don't want anyone to make decisions for me, I don't want to make those decisions for anyone else either.


I also believe that a gay lifestyle is NOT a choice for most people (there are a few who I believe "experiment", it is the way they are "made." Why would a person choose a life that is inifintely more difficult than the more accepted heterosexuality? My daughter is not broken, she is a wonderful, caring person, and there is nothing wrong with her.

I believe that being gay is a sin that you arent born with, but choose to do. I would fight for the rights of any child! ANY child! It is my firm belief that all are born in sin, and if I didnt fight for one that might someday sin by being gay, than I cant fight for any baby, as all are sinful. Even my 7 mo. old throws tantrums and scratches me when he doesnt get his way, born in sin. Gay is not a gene issue. Gay is a choice. And, I have that sin in a close member of my family who I love and pray for, so I am not a gay basher. This is just my belief. All children that are aborted are murdered!

I'm going to try not to say anything to offend anyone (and I don't usually chime in to such debates), but I just wanted to say that I think it's a very interesting question to raise. Pro-life people fight to save the babies, but if that person ends up gay, they fight against them more. I think people should just mind their own business and quit trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives. It's their lives, not yours...stop being so judgemental! The fact that these issues then become political is ridiculous. There are so many more problems in this world that they should be focusing on. And I don't think babies are sinful...if a baby throws a "tantrum" it's because he hasn't learned yet how to effectively communicate and may cry at his frustrations.

To me the question is asking this: If I somehow force the mother to change her mind on abortion so the baby will be born rather than aborted, then the child turns out to be gay...will I still fight for her rights? I fought for her right to be born...shouldn't I keep up the fight for this child and the challenges she will have as being gay?


IF THE FETUS YOU SAVE IS GAY, WILL YOU STILL FIGHT FOR IT'S RIGHTS

That was the question. Because you don't know when you fought for it's right to live that it would be gay. Now that it's alive and gay, will you still fight for it's rights as a human and a gay person.

Really well said, Danna!! Amen & Halleujah!

I have a hard struggle with the pro-life/pro-choice debate. On one hand, I feel that abortion should not be abused as a form of birth control for people who can't get their act together, but at the same time, I feel there should be that option available to those in the worst situations (rape, incest). So I am pro-choice, but am not advocating abortion as an alternative to smart safe sex.


And to me, a person does not choose to be gay. It is hard-wired in them. I have many friends & close family members that struggle daily with our anti-gay society, and as a previous poster said, why would they WANT to be hated/disrespected/judged on a daily basis. No one would choose a harder life on purpose. I am all for gay rights, I believe that every couple has a right to marry the person that they love, and to divorce them should that marriage fail (like most hetero marriages do in this day & age). They should be able to raise children, and be free to be who they are without having to explain their relationships.



It is a religious belief that "Gay is sin," and it shouldn't play into the Federal or State's rules on what is or isn't a marriage. The legal system in our country is supposed to be separated from the church. So far, it hasn't happened. Hopefully, it will soon.

The only way we could possibly make this question any worse is if we made the fetus grow up to be a gay and an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT!
General debate or not, this can only get nasty with the depth of people's beliefs on this one.

As a Catholic I am Pro-life. I am an advocate for the respect of life at any age. Everyone deserves respect and I don't have the right to judge anyone because that is God's job.

The Bible says that killing is a sin and so is being Gay~
The right to live and the right to sin is not the same.

God gave us life. He did not give us the right to sin.



That is why he sent his Son, to save us from our sins.

It is a religious belief that "Gay is sin," and it shouldn't play into the Federal or State's rules on what is or isn't a marriage. The legal system in our country is supposed to be separated from the church. So far, it hasn't happened. Hopefully, it will soon.[/quote]


It cracks me up that everyone thinks that seperation of church and state means that there is not allowed to be any religion in the government. The reason behind that idea of seperation of church and state was so that the government could not tell us what church to attend and comes from the whole reason that the colonies fought for freedom. I do believe, there need to be laws, and there should not be a law alloweing gay marriage, and there should not be a law allowing the murder of unborn babies. I would no more support gay marriage for my family member who I love and who is sinning, and he knows it, than I would the murder of a baby unborn, or the use of stem cells from aborted babies used to study cures for my ill grandmother. I bring these things up that werent listed, because I have so many things in my life that I can claim to understand both sides of, and I still say abortion is murder, gay lifestyle is a sin. BUT, I DO agree that all people should be treated the same, despite race, gender, sexual bend. I would not harm by word or deed a gay person, though I would let them know I am praying for them and that I dont approve, but I would not keep myself apart from them, or make my children turn away from them. Now, you may see me as being rigid, but I believe that God has set moral laws and that he expects us to follow them, and that not following them is sin.

I was born because my mother had an abortion. You read that correctly. My mother conceived a child and had an abortion due to complications in the first trimester. Seven-ish months later, I was conceived. My conception would not have been possible if my mother had kept the first child. Having no complications with me, she carried me to term and now here I am. Obviously, this makes me a pro-choice advocate. That said, I do NOT believe that abortion should be used as a form of "birth control".

I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own significant other. To me, it doesn't matter if my son is straight or gay. What matters to me is that he is healthy, happy, educated, confident, considerate of others, and develops meaningful relationships.

Kitkat137 wrote:I was born because my mother had an abortion. You read that correctly. My mother conceived a child and had an abortion due to complications in the first trimester. Seven-ish months later, I was conceived. My conception would not have been possible if my mother had kept the first child. Having no complications with me, she carried me to term and now here I am. Obviously, this makes me a pro-choice advocate. That said, I do NOT believe that abortion should be used as a form of "birth control".

I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own significant other. To me, it doesn't matter if my son is straight or gay. What matters to me is that he is healthy, happy, educated, confident, considerate of others, and develops meaningful relationships.

This does not mean that it was not wrong to kill the other baby. You were born not because she had a abortion, but because God caused you to be born. That does not make it ok that the other baby was killed.

In answer to the initial question - I can't really weigh in on it because I am pro choice, so of course I would fight for the child's rights to be gay, but then I wouldn't have fought for the child to be born in the first place.

Broad generalization coming here... and I am sure there are plenty of exceptions to it.

But I think the question is sort of moot. The Christian Pro-Lifer's that the question assumes would be anti-gay, usually don't think that homosexuality is something a person is born with, they believe that homosexuality is a sinful and incorrect choice, therefore they would not be fighting for or against a gay person's rights, they would want that person to be saved and make the 'correct' choice to not be gay in the first place. What I mean is, a gay person is not a person that should have rights, because being gay isnt like race or gender, it is something that someone erroneously chose to do that is wrong - much like theft or murder. You wouldn't fight for a person who chooses to commit a crime, to have the right to do it again.

kcatt79 wrote: This does not mean that it was not wrong to kill the other baby. You were born not because she had a abortion, but because God caused you to be born. That does not make it ok that the other baby was killed.

I disagree. I understand that others have different religious beliefs; but, the religious beliefs of others should never dictate the morals and laws of the world, only those of the person(s) who hold those beliefs.

My mother had the free-will to choose and your belief demeans her choices and actions in my eyes. I firmly believe, even if I had not ever been conceived, that it was the right choice for her to make.

kcatt79 wrote: It cracks me up that everyone thinks that seperation of church and state means that there is not allowed to be any religion in the government.

The whole point of this is so that no one religion would be pushed on everyone else...like it had been in Europe. So putting your religion in and forcing others to follow it is a direct violation of this. Not everyone believes in the same things as you and it is their right to believe what they want. Pushing your religion on others is the main way to judge people, tell them how to live their lives and is offensive that everyone has to live up to your standards.

megamay wrote:In answer to the initial question - I can't really weigh in on it because I am pro choice, so of course I would fight for the child's rights to be gay, but then I wouldn't have fought for the child to be born in the first place.

Broad generalization coming here... and I am sure there are plenty of exceptions to it.

But I think the question is sort of moot. The Christian Pro-Lifer's that the question assumes would be anti-gay, usually don't think that homosexuality is something a person is born with, they believe that homosexuality is a sinful and incorrect choice, therefore they would not be fighting for or against a gay person's rights, they would want that person to be saved and make the 'correct' choice to not be gay in the first place. What I mean is, a gay person is not a person that should have rights, because being gay isnt like race or gender, it is something that someone erroneously chose to do that is wrong - much like theft or murder. You wouldn't fight for a person who chooses to commit a crime, to have the right to do it again.

I think the point of the question is to try and give the pro-life people something to think about...trying to get them to see how hypocritical they are being. But seeing as how they usually don't think much past their own agenda and trying to get everyone to believe like they do, it probably will never work.