Let me first say that I am probably the last person to debate religion publically but recent events in my life have led to some real questions about the nature of religion, god, and faith,
This quote from a college class keeps running through my head of late:
"if god is good he is not great if god is great he is not god"
Please discuss. I'd appreciate hearing from the "heathens" on the board as well as the "true believers". Just to put my bias out front, I tend toward the heathen end of the spectrum, especially these days.
Cherry Bing
I'm not sure what you are looking for here....just a simple I am catholic or yes, I believe in God? Or more?
My answer is yes, I believe in God. I am not religious, have not gone to church regularly since I was 18 and my mom couldn't force me to anymore. Does that make me any less Christian? No. I have the same God I did then, I talk to him, I pray to him and I know that he has guided me more than once in my lifetime. How do I know there is a God? Not only because I have read the bible (twice actually), but because I have gone through some pretty bad crap in my adult life and come out the other side with my faith and the ability to go on. Considering that I do not consider myself to be a strong person, I KNOW I had help. God stepped in only a few days ago when my mother was clinically dead TWICE in one night and being 73 years old with a laundry list of health issues a mile long, and no extreme treatments because the hospital could not find out if she had a DNR, God stepped in and I am happy to say that my mom is feeling better and actually may be released from the hospital in the next week. She has been there for over one month and until the other night, we were not optomistic that she would ever come home. I have no shame in asking for prayer from anyone and I have many times prayed for others I don't know.
I lost my husband suddenly and while at the time I cursed God for leaving me to raise three kids alone, I now know I am not alone. I have guidance. It may sound silly to some but shortly after he died someone told me that if I saw a white feather, it was Michael. Well several times over the past few years when I have been down in the dumps or wondering how I was going to get to the next day, out of nowhere would appear a white feather. The first one sorta freaked me out....I was at work and kept feeling a pinching in my pants. I went to the bathroom and a tiny white feather had weaved itself into my underwear. I know, its kinda funny, but also something that my husband would have done! LOL! We don't have down pillows or even down jackets or blankets at home so I honestly have no idea how this feather found its way to my panties and weaved itself in there. I still have that feather, years later. There have been other feathers as well. So while this may not be GOD doing this, I know that my husband is in Heaven and God is there with him.
OK, this went off on a tangent I wasn't planning to do...my bottom line is yes, I believe in God.
My answer is yes, I believe in God. I am not religious, have not gone to church regularly since I was 18 and my mom couldn't force me to anymore. Does that make me any less Christian? No. I have the same God I did then, I talk to him, I pray to him and I know that he has guided me more than once in my lifetime. How do I know there is a God? Not only because I have read the bible (twice actually), but because I have gone through some pretty bad crap in my adult life and come out the other side with my faith and the ability to go on. Considering that I do not consider myself to be a strong person, I KNOW I had help. God stepped in only a few days ago when my mother was clinically dead TWICE in one night and being 73 years old with a laundry list of health issues a mile long, and no extreme treatments because the hospital could not find out if she had a DNR, God stepped in and I am happy to say that my mom is feeling better and actually may be released from the hospital in the next week. She has been there for over one month and until the other night, we were not optomistic that she would ever come home. I have no shame in asking for prayer from anyone and I have many times prayed for others I don't know.
I lost my husband suddenly and while at the time I cursed God for leaving me to raise three kids alone, I now know I am not alone. I have guidance. It may sound silly to some but shortly after he died someone told me that if I saw a white feather, it was Michael. Well several times over the past few years when I have been down in the dumps or wondering how I was going to get to the next day, out of nowhere would appear a white feather. The first one sorta freaked me out....I was at work and kept feeling a pinching in my pants. I went to the bathroom and a tiny white feather had weaved itself into my underwear. I know, its kinda funny, but also something that my husband would have done! LOL! We don't have down pillows or even down jackets or blankets at home so I honestly have no idea how this feather found its way to my panties and weaved itself in there. I still have that feather, years later. There have been other feathers as well. So while this may not be GOD doing this, I know that my husband is in Heaven and God is there with him.
OK, this went off on a tangent I wasn't planning to do...my bottom line is yes, I believe in God.
Wild Cherry
I am a very devout Catholic and have been for 55 years. God has never let me down and has helped through every obstacle in my life. I am never alone as long as I remember he is there for me. I don't agree with the statement If God is good He is not great. If God is great He is not God.
[
Donna-Retiree3-Proud Grandmother of Three Boys!
[highlight=#000000][/highlight]
Donna-Retiree3-Proud Grandmother of Three Boys!
[highlight=#000000][/highlight]
Cherry Blossom
lolol
as much as I see a post with "prayers needed" in the title on this site.. I'd have to reply, no comment
but I wouldn't mind reading this later
as much as I see a post with "prayers needed" in the title on this site.. I'd have to reply, no comment
but I wouldn't mind reading this later
Cherry Jubilee
I also do NOT agree with that statement. I too believe in GOD, and yes, he has intervened on my behalf more times then I deserve. Do I ever get angry at him, or question him? Of course I do! I would not be human if I didn't. But I also know that he has the ultimate plan, and though we may not understand things when they happen, given time, (his time frame, not ours) the answer will be revealed, and I found at least for me that answer is the best for me. He does not always give us what we ask for, he gives us what we need. Also, I have found that when I think I have "lost" something, usually it is to empty my hands for something better.
Susan 
Cherry Cola
Well, I like Susan do not attend a church regularly, but feel that does not make me less of a christian. I am a firm believer in God, I feel he is there for you no matter what. In my opionion if you've given birth to a child , there couldn't be any question. I also believe He gave each and everyone FREE WILL, this means he does not controll what you Say, or choose for your life. He can only be there for us when we ask him. And I know firmly He is there. We may not like the Answears he sends us, or His solutions, but I've always felt there are reasons why things turn out the way they do. If he wants me to know it eventually reveals itself. I hope you can find some solution through your struggle.
~Janet~
Celebrity Cherry 5/10 , Guest Ct 5/11
Celebrity Cherry 5/10 , Guest Ct 5/11
Cherry Cropper
I believe in our Lord! He is the one that has got me through some pretty rough times. I too know that He is there all I have to do is turn to Him. He will never leave us, we are His children. We have lost 2 grandbabies and I have asked why, but I know that one day I will be with them again. I have never been angry with God even when I lost my grandbabies.
I know there is uglyness in the world, but that is of our own making. There is beauty in the world if we take the time to look! That is God!
I don't understand that statement. God is good and great and forgiving!
I know there is uglyness in the world, but that is of our own making. There is beauty in the world if we take the time to look! That is God!
I don't understand that statement. God is good and great and forgiving!
We have to forgive! If we don't forgive, we'll get left behind! janet rose
Love people & use things--- Not love things & use people!
Scrapgram
Love people & use things--- Not love things & use people!
Scrapgram
Cherry Picker
Note: I would never foist my testimony on anyone without being asked, but you DID ask.........
Well, I don't have a clue what that quote means and I have a Master's Degree. Of course, I also have a very "literal" mind so, sorry, I just don't get it. This is probably why I avoided philosophy classes in school--I didn't get THEM either, LOL.
I was raised in the home of two believers. I was in church every time the doors were open--my father had a key to open the doors! But, as I grew up and began to see the human flaws in the two believers who raised me, I wanted no part of their religion. To this day, I cannot resolve some of the behaviors exhibited on a regular basis with the teachings of the Bible. However, over the years, I've come to understand it is we humans who limit what God can do in and for us. God has no limits, and we, too, should have no limits. I walked away from God and the church many years ago. But as life came at me, I found myself edging back, ever so slowly and carefully to where I'd started with God. I tried to reason out everything and I've got a good IQ. But I got nowhere, reasoning Him out. I realize some of that was occasioned by incomplete information, and some of that was caused by the nature of God. He does say "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts."........
I have come full circle. I am as strong a believer as you can imagine. Why? Well first, after trying the reasoning thing, and chasing my tail intellectually, I decided that it came down to a choice. Either you believe or you don't. There are some things I think we will never understand on this earth and trying to reason them out with our limited brains will merely make us crazy--remember the movie "A Beautiful Mind"? Yeah, that kind of crazy. We weren't designed to be able to understand them. So, when you boil it all down, it is a matter of choice, and choice is a matter of faith. I could not reconcile a world where there was no God, so I chose faith. As I've progressed from there, I have seen the hand of God operate in my own life.
When my DD was around 8, she began complaining that her legs ached. Leg ache, sometimes called growth pains, runs in my family so I didn't think much of it. However, as things progressed, she was diagnosed at the age of 12 with bi-lateral mirror image juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. She was effected in her hands, her hips, her knees, and her ankles. Walking was painful and we learned to be very happy we lived in the desert with very limited rainfall. She had all the appropriate tests and was under the care of a rheumatologist. One day I was in my room, reading The Secret Kingdom by Pat Robertson. I learned some things I didn't know and my faith went soaring. I came out to the living room and asked if she minded if I prayed for her. She didn't mind, so I prayed. From that day on, the meds were abandoned. The pain recurred 4 times. Each time I would pray and the pain would recede and that was the end of juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. She does have a few enlarged joints, just enough to prove she once had arthritis.
When my DD was pregnant with my oldest grandson, she had a "suspicious" pap test. She subsequently had 4 more "suspicious" pap tests. Then she had other tests, all of which led a team of doctors to a diagnosis of cervical cancer. They could not treat her because she was pregnant and I grew to almost dislike that baby that was preventing MY baby from getting potentially life saving treatment or surgery. I had a roommate at the time who was a crazy Christian--one of those "far out" people. My roommate attended an all night prayer service and came home and announced that "if ANYONE prays for her in church on Sunday, she will be healed". She and I went to church on Sunday and I began to look around for Benny Hinn or Oral Roberts, men known for their healing ministries, but they weren't there. Then, I began to look around for any member of the pastoral staff, knowing that among these men, there were men with healing ministries as well. They were all strangely absent. Finally, I figured time was about up--the pastor was praying over the offering and then he would preach. It occurred to me that I qualified as "anyone" so I began to pray. I have no idea what I said. But when the docs were able to finally do a biopsy, months later, there was NO abnormality found. Cervical cancer was gone........
Last story: Somewhere around '98, just after Christmas, we'd just finished eating lunch and I got such horrific pain in the left side of my face I could hardly stand it. My mother, who was visiting, kept asking me questions and all I could do was wave her off; I knew if I opened my mouth, the only thing that would come out of it would be a scream. The pain started in my jaw area and radiated up to my ear and down to my teeth and was excruciating. After about an hour it passed. We went to church on Sunday and the pastor stood up and asked if anyone was having a problem in the jaw area. 3 of us raised our hands and I looked at my mother in shock. He said the problem somehow effected the ear, I looked at my mother with wide-eyed shock, and 2 people in the church raised their hand, me included. Finally, he said this pain also somehow effected the teeth, and my mother and I about fell out of our pew. Again, I raised my hand and I was the ONLY person with a raised hand. He looked right at me and said "It will be completely healed" and went on with the service. Well, the pain came back. And it came back and it came back. Finally I was having a steady "diet" of pain, heck of a way to lose weight, LOL. I took Vicodin and it didn't help even a little. I took pills that put me to sleep, but I groaned and moaned in my sleep and woke up in pain. Nothing helped this pain. I've done tax preparation as a side business for 30 years and as we crept through January, me constantly in horrific pain, I began to panic. How in the world would I do tax returns when I spent my life with a heating pad on my face, groaning. And, I needed the tax money to survive. The pain was ghastly but I had no medical insurance and couldn't afford to go back and forth to a doctor and undergo a mountain of tests; I couldn't sleep and I couldn't eat. The only thing that kept me sane was our pastor's words: "It will be completely healed". One day, a goofy friend of mine, a great big guy about 6'4 and 300 pounds, a rough and tough biker type, prayed that God would let him take my pain for the day. I had an amazingly good day; he had to leave work and go home and go to bed. I don't think he's ever prayed a stupid prayer like that again, but it sure intensified his prayers on my behalf! Finally, around the 28th or 29th of January (I'd have to check my journals to be sure), it struck me--this had to be nerve pain. First, the pain radiated, following a nerve or nerves. Second, I had taken a variety of pain pills and nothing had fazed it. Something, I reasoned, was causing this nerve or nerves to be in pain. They were inflamed and screaming. Inflammation=swelling which responded to heat. I got the bright idea to take Advil, 3 every 3 hours, to reduce the swelling. Just as tax season was beginning, the pain went away, and it has never returned. I was "completely healed" just as the pastor had said.
I could tell more stories, but the kernel of truth here is that arthritis and cancer are not psychosomatic conditions. They are real and there were medical tests to back up the diagnoses. I had no medical tests with the jaw thing, but I do have TMJ and my jaw pops in and out at will. I can only conclude that it had popped around until it landed on a bundle of nerves, pressed on them, irritated them, and the screaming pain began--it was real, not psychosomatic. I don't think psychosomatic pain can awaken a person from sleep...... In any case, each of these conditions disappeared with prayer. There is no medical explanation. The doctors were set to remove my daughter's cervix, but the cancer was gone; they had no explanation. She was supposed to end up, deformed, in a wheelchair, according to medical science, as a result of the arthritis. She has knock knees and some enlarged joints on her hands, but no real deformity of the type JRA usually leaves, and no wheelchair! There is no explanation but God.
For anyone who has doubts, I recommend finding a good modern translation of the Bible, maybe the Message translation. Find the Gospel of John and read it and during the time you are reading it, pray. Tell God you don't know what to believe. You don't know if all this religious stuff is hokum or real. Then tell Him you are WILLING to believe and ask Him to reveal Himself in a way that only YOU would recognize. Then, buckle your seatbelt and watch what happens. He will NEVER turn away from a sincere prayer like that...... PM me and I will help you along in the rest of your journey.
Marci
HotFlashDesigns
Well, I don't have a clue what that quote means and I have a Master's Degree. Of course, I also have a very "literal" mind so, sorry, I just don't get it. This is probably why I avoided philosophy classes in school--I didn't get THEM either, LOL.
I was raised in the home of two believers. I was in church every time the doors were open--my father had a key to open the doors! But, as I grew up and began to see the human flaws in the two believers who raised me, I wanted no part of their religion. To this day, I cannot resolve some of the behaviors exhibited on a regular basis with the teachings of the Bible. However, over the years, I've come to understand it is we humans who limit what God can do in and for us. God has no limits, and we, too, should have no limits. I walked away from God and the church many years ago. But as life came at me, I found myself edging back, ever so slowly and carefully to where I'd started with God. I tried to reason out everything and I've got a good IQ. But I got nowhere, reasoning Him out. I realize some of that was occasioned by incomplete information, and some of that was caused by the nature of God. He does say "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts."........
I have come full circle. I am as strong a believer as you can imagine. Why? Well first, after trying the reasoning thing, and chasing my tail intellectually, I decided that it came down to a choice. Either you believe or you don't. There are some things I think we will never understand on this earth and trying to reason them out with our limited brains will merely make us crazy--remember the movie "A Beautiful Mind"? Yeah, that kind of crazy. We weren't designed to be able to understand them. So, when you boil it all down, it is a matter of choice, and choice is a matter of faith. I could not reconcile a world where there was no God, so I chose faith. As I've progressed from there, I have seen the hand of God operate in my own life.
When my DD was around 8, she began complaining that her legs ached. Leg ache, sometimes called growth pains, runs in my family so I didn't think much of it. However, as things progressed, she was diagnosed at the age of 12 with bi-lateral mirror image juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. She was effected in her hands, her hips, her knees, and her ankles. Walking was painful and we learned to be very happy we lived in the desert with very limited rainfall. She had all the appropriate tests and was under the care of a rheumatologist. One day I was in my room, reading The Secret Kingdom by Pat Robertson. I learned some things I didn't know and my faith went soaring. I came out to the living room and asked if she minded if I prayed for her. She didn't mind, so I prayed. From that day on, the meds were abandoned. The pain recurred 4 times. Each time I would pray and the pain would recede and that was the end of juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. She does have a few enlarged joints, just enough to prove she once had arthritis.
When my DD was pregnant with my oldest grandson, she had a "suspicious" pap test. She subsequently had 4 more "suspicious" pap tests. Then she had other tests, all of which led a team of doctors to a diagnosis of cervical cancer. They could not treat her because she was pregnant and I grew to almost dislike that baby that was preventing MY baby from getting potentially life saving treatment or surgery. I had a roommate at the time who was a crazy Christian--one of those "far out" people. My roommate attended an all night prayer service and came home and announced that "if ANYONE prays for her in church on Sunday, she will be healed". She and I went to church on Sunday and I began to look around for Benny Hinn or Oral Roberts, men known for their healing ministries, but they weren't there. Then, I began to look around for any member of the pastoral staff, knowing that among these men, there were men with healing ministries as well. They were all strangely absent. Finally, I figured time was about up--the pastor was praying over the offering and then he would preach. It occurred to me that I qualified as "anyone" so I began to pray. I have no idea what I said. But when the docs were able to finally do a biopsy, months later, there was NO abnormality found. Cervical cancer was gone........
Last story: Somewhere around '98, just after Christmas, we'd just finished eating lunch and I got such horrific pain in the left side of my face I could hardly stand it. My mother, who was visiting, kept asking me questions and all I could do was wave her off; I knew if I opened my mouth, the only thing that would come out of it would be a scream. The pain started in my jaw area and radiated up to my ear and down to my teeth and was excruciating. After about an hour it passed. We went to church on Sunday and the pastor stood up and asked if anyone was having a problem in the jaw area. 3 of us raised our hands and I looked at my mother in shock. He said the problem somehow effected the ear, I looked at my mother with wide-eyed shock, and 2 people in the church raised their hand, me included. Finally, he said this pain also somehow effected the teeth, and my mother and I about fell out of our pew. Again, I raised my hand and I was the ONLY person with a raised hand. He looked right at me and said "It will be completely healed" and went on with the service. Well, the pain came back. And it came back and it came back. Finally I was having a steady "diet" of pain, heck of a way to lose weight, LOL. I took Vicodin and it didn't help even a little. I took pills that put me to sleep, but I groaned and moaned in my sleep and woke up in pain. Nothing helped this pain. I've done tax preparation as a side business for 30 years and as we crept through January, me constantly in horrific pain, I began to panic. How in the world would I do tax returns when I spent my life with a heating pad on my face, groaning. And, I needed the tax money to survive. The pain was ghastly but I had no medical insurance and couldn't afford to go back and forth to a doctor and undergo a mountain of tests; I couldn't sleep and I couldn't eat. The only thing that kept me sane was our pastor's words: "It will be completely healed". One day, a goofy friend of mine, a great big guy about 6'4 and 300 pounds, a rough and tough biker type, prayed that God would let him take my pain for the day. I had an amazingly good day; he had to leave work and go home and go to bed. I don't think he's ever prayed a stupid prayer like that again, but it sure intensified his prayers on my behalf! Finally, around the 28th or 29th of January (I'd have to check my journals to be sure), it struck me--this had to be nerve pain. First, the pain radiated, following a nerve or nerves. Second, I had taken a variety of pain pills and nothing had fazed it. Something, I reasoned, was causing this nerve or nerves to be in pain. They were inflamed and screaming. Inflammation=swelling which responded to heat. I got the bright idea to take Advil, 3 every 3 hours, to reduce the swelling. Just as tax season was beginning, the pain went away, and it has never returned. I was "completely healed" just as the pastor had said.
I could tell more stories, but the kernel of truth here is that arthritis and cancer are not psychosomatic conditions. They are real and there were medical tests to back up the diagnoses. I had no medical tests with the jaw thing, but I do have TMJ and my jaw pops in and out at will. I can only conclude that it had popped around until it landed on a bundle of nerves, pressed on them, irritated them, and the screaming pain began--it was real, not psychosomatic. I don't think psychosomatic pain can awaken a person from sleep...... In any case, each of these conditions disappeared with prayer. There is no medical explanation. The doctors were set to remove my daughter's cervix, but the cancer was gone; they had no explanation. She was supposed to end up, deformed, in a wheelchair, according to medical science, as a result of the arthritis. She has knock knees and some enlarged joints on her hands, but no real deformity of the type JRA usually leaves, and no wheelchair! There is no explanation but God.
For anyone who has doubts, I recommend finding a good modern translation of the Bible, maybe the Message translation. Find the Gospel of John and read it and during the time you are reading it, pray. Tell God you don't know what to believe. You don't know if all this religious stuff is hokum or real. Then tell Him you are WILLING to believe and ask Him to reveal Himself in a way that only YOU would recognize. Then, buckle your seatbelt and watch what happens. He will NEVER turn away from a sincere prayer like that...... PM me and I will help you along in the rest of your journey.
Marci
HotFlashDesigns
Proudly creating for Bella Gypsy Designs
Cherry Picker
This is for Scrapgram. My daughter too has lost a baby. She miscarried in September and we were devastated even though she was only a few weeks along. In May of the following year, her husband was mugged, was expected to die of his injuries, had to have emergency brain surgery to keep him alive, and has never quite been the same since. Had she NOT miscarried that baby, she would have been delivering that baby in the middle of the fight for her husband's life. We certainly did not want to lose that baby but even she has said she could not have survived a brand new infant and her husband's problems simultaneously. Subsequently, God has given us two beautiful perfect babies, double for our trouble.
Marci
HotFlashDesigns
Marci
HotFlashDesigns
Proudly creating for Bella Gypsy Designs
Chocolate Covered Cherry
I don't get it. Who is that quote from? Is there more to it? Is this translated from another language? When was it originally said?
Yea, the first part is just some silly nit-picking sematics. "good" and "great" have different definitions and it can be argued conflicting definitions. So what? just nit-picking.
The second part I just totally don't understand. If it is more nit-picking sematics I don't see where there are conflicts in the definitions of "great" and "god" to make them mutually exclusive. What dictionary was this nit-picker using? I don't get it, and I don't think getting it has to do with whether you believe or not.
Yea, the first part is just some silly nit-picking sematics. "good" and "great" have different definitions and it can be argued conflicting definitions. So what? just nit-picking.
The second part I just totally don't understand. If it is more nit-picking sematics I don't see where there are conflicts in the definitions of "great" and "god" to make them mutually exclusive. What dictionary was this nit-picker using? I don't get it, and I don't think getting it has to do with whether you believe or not.
Cherry Cola
I think what that quote means is that if God is great ie omnipotent and able to affect everything however he wants then he isn't good because he isn't very nice. If he is nice then he can't be omnipotent because what nice being would just let all the bad stuff in our world happen.
I totally agree with that statement. But that is not even part of the reason that I am an atheist. I grew up in a sort of religious Methodist family. I tried to believe. I went to different churches took classes and even tried several times to read the Bible. It just doesn't make sense to me. I have a very analytical scientific mind and there are too many things that don't male sense
For a long time I called myself an agnostic hoped for inspiration to believe and reasoned that if God created me then he would have to accept my skepticism because he made my mind.
I have a child. And I think becoming a mother gave me the confidence to accept myself and my beliefs. I am the person I am because I am half my mom and half my dad. My body created my beautiful daughter because that is what it was made to do. God is a creation of the human mind. Created both to explain the unknown, create greater cooperation within communities and male us feel better. But mainly to aid the cooperation because sticking together in groups helped our species survive and one way to bind people and enforce laws is through an unseen impartial spirit.
At least this us what I ' believe
'
I totally agree with that statement. But that is not even part of the reason that I am an atheist. I grew up in a sort of religious Methodist family. I tried to believe. I went to different churches took classes and even tried several times to read the Bible. It just doesn't make sense to me. I have a very analytical scientific mind and there are too many things that don't male sense
For a long time I called myself an agnostic hoped for inspiration to believe and reasoned that if God created me then he would have to accept my skepticism because he made my mind.
I have a child. And I think becoming a mother gave me the confidence to accept myself and my beliefs. I am the person I am because I am half my mom and half my dad. My body created my beautiful daughter because that is what it was made to do. God is a creation of the human mind. Created both to explain the unknown, create greater cooperation within communities and male us feel better. But mainly to aid the cooperation because sticking together in groups helped our species survive and one way to bind people and enforce laws is through an unseen impartial spirit.
At least this us what I ' believe
'
Cherry Cola
Sorry for the typos and lack of punctuation
I'm on my phone typing this.
I'm on my phone typing this.
Cherry Cola
Yep that's what it means. It was translated from German so that's why it may be confusing to some.megamay wrote:I think what that quote means is that if God is great ie omnipotent and able to affect everything however he wants then he isn't good because he isn't very nice. If he is nice then he can't be omnipotent because what nice being would just let all the bad stuff in our world happen.
I totally agree with that statement. But that is not even part of the reason that I am an atheist. I grew up in a sort of religious Methodist family. I tried to believe. I went to different churches took classes and even tried several times to read the Bible. It just doesn't make sense to me. I have a very analytical scientific mind and there are too many things that don't male sense
For a long time I called myself an agnostic hoped for inspiration to believe and reasoned that if God created me then he would have to accept my skepticism because he made my mind.
I have a child. And I think becoming a mother gave me the confidence to accept myself and my beliefs. I am the person I am because I am half my mom and half my dad. My body created my beautiful daughter because that is what it was made to do. God is a creation of the human mind. Created both to explain the unknown, create greater cooperation within communities and male us feel better. But mainly to aid the cooperation because sticking together in groups helped our species survive and one way to bind people and enforce laws is through an unseen impartial spirit.
At least this us what I ' believe
'
I put this out there because I am having a hard time keeping my mouth shut with my extended family. My cousin's nephew has been fighting Lukemia this year and the bone marrow transplant they did as a last effort has failed. He has now been sent home to die at 10 years old and keeps asking them what he did wrong. They are all posting things and saying things like "god is a good god" and I fail to see it. I just don't get it. If he was good and really in control of people's lives as so many profess then a little boy would not be struck down with cancer and wondering what HE did wrong.
Becky
Cherry Picker
In general, those of us who believe in God also believe in an opposing evil force known as Satan. God created Adam and Eve to have dominion over the world. When they disobeyed God and yielded to Satan's temptation, they gave up dominion. Jesus came to this earth and gave His life that His followers could once again have dominion. He is called "the second Adam" for a reason. But, no one is required to accept Christ's sacrifice. God does not force himself on anyone. Unless we invite Him into our lives, we are at Satan's mercy and it is Satan's task in life to "steal, kill, and destroy". He is doing that to this boy, and he is doing that with any tidbit of faith that might have been lurking in the boy's family members. And, if the boy dies, he will disable, through grief, those who are Christians in his family who may not know the power they have. He's good at his "job" and he has NO conscience in what tools he uses to accomplish his goals. Through Christ, we are overcomers. The Bible says that "He that is in us is greater than he that is in the world (Satan)." But, unless someone has taught us about the power we have through Christ, we may never achieve our "overcomer" potential.
While Christ was on earth, he healed the sick. In fact, the Bible says He "healed them all". The only time he did no great miracles was in his hometown where people looked at Him and saw the carpenter's son, not the son of God, and doubted. When He ascended to Heaven, He said His followers would do greater works than He had done because He was going to the Father but the Holy Spirit would come to comfort and guide and strengthen His followers. Where there is faith without doubt, there is healing. Where there is doubt or unbelief, great miracles do not happen. And, we have to remember, that Jesus Himself settled the question that health conditions are not a result of some sin committed by the sick person or by the sick person's family. I would not be surprised to hear that this young man has heard some "religious" person comment about sin in someone's life causing this illness, the exact same statement Christ negated while on earth.
Organized religion. over the years, has made compromises in what is taught. The classic example is the fact that we celebrate Christmas, Christ's birth, on a pagan holiday. With study, you would find many classic "religious" statements for which there is no basis in scripture; in fact some of them are in direct conflict with scripture. Where there is a lack of power, which should not be, there are "explanations" and "truisms" that are not true. Do not confuse religion with being a follower of Christ. They are not the same. When people walked in the true light of the Word of God, people experienced healing merely by applying to their bodies handkerchiefs and cloths that Paul the Apostle (St. Paul to some of us) had worn. I would love to pray the prayer of faith for this young man. I do not guarantee results. Jesus raised Jairus's daughter from the dead, but only after He had thrown the unbelievers, doubters, grievers out of the room. I can't remove the doubters in this boy's life, but I can certainly pray the prayer of faith for him and I will.
Marci
HotFlashDesigns
While Christ was on earth, he healed the sick. In fact, the Bible says He "healed them all". The only time he did no great miracles was in his hometown where people looked at Him and saw the carpenter's son, not the son of God, and doubted. When He ascended to Heaven, He said His followers would do greater works than He had done because He was going to the Father but the Holy Spirit would come to comfort and guide and strengthen His followers. Where there is faith without doubt, there is healing. Where there is doubt or unbelief, great miracles do not happen. And, we have to remember, that Jesus Himself settled the question that health conditions are not a result of some sin committed by the sick person or by the sick person's family. I would not be surprised to hear that this young man has heard some "religious" person comment about sin in someone's life causing this illness, the exact same statement Christ negated while on earth.
Organized religion. over the years, has made compromises in what is taught. The classic example is the fact that we celebrate Christmas, Christ's birth, on a pagan holiday. With study, you would find many classic "religious" statements for which there is no basis in scripture; in fact some of them are in direct conflict with scripture. Where there is a lack of power, which should not be, there are "explanations" and "truisms" that are not true. Do not confuse religion with being a follower of Christ. They are not the same. When people walked in the true light of the Word of God, people experienced healing merely by applying to their bodies handkerchiefs and cloths that Paul the Apostle (St. Paul to some of us) had worn. I would love to pray the prayer of faith for this young man. I do not guarantee results. Jesus raised Jairus's daughter from the dead, but only after He had thrown the unbelievers, doubters, grievers out of the room. I can't remove the doubters in this boy's life, but I can certainly pray the prayer of faith for him and I will.
Marci
HotFlashDesigns
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Chocolate Covered Cherry
Bad things happen to good people. And good things happen to bad people. A lot of time it doesn't make sense, especially when it is happening to you or those you love. That little boy may have very well done nothing wrong. Bad things do not always happen as punishment. To see bad things a punishment and good things as a reward is over-simplification. Life is more complex than that. No one gets a free ride.
Cherry Garcia
I have no doubt that God exists. In reference to the quote, yes, He is good and He is great and He is omnipotent. In His wisdom, he gave us the gift of free will. With that gift comes responsibilities. Yes, He could control all that we do, but He has chosen not to.
In reference to the little guy, here is a link to a video that may help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl58qufXfYk . This man's situation is not the same, but he show us that God uses suffering and pain to bring us closer to Him.
Praying for you and him and his family.
In reference to the little guy, here is a link to a video that may help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl58qufXfYk . This man's situation is not the same, but he show us that God uses suffering and pain to bring us closer to Him.
Praying for you and him and his family.
Heidi
Cherry Cola
Oh I am so sorry to hear about this. Of course the illness itself is awful but to let him think it is his fault... that is just wrong.
Whether you believe in God or not bad things happen to good people. I think it is tragic when people use the teachings of christ to make others feel bad about what is already a horrible situation. And behavior like that is quite unchristian like anyway. Even if someone doubts or sinned wasn't Christs message love and forgiveness. This illness is not the boys fault or his parents' it is just one of those things.
What happened to 'it is all God's plan' or 'god needed another angel' or even 'he is testing your faith through adversity' certainly all of those sentiments are better than trying to blame anyone.
Whether you believe in God or not bad things happen to good people. I think it is tragic when people use the teachings of christ to make others feel bad about what is already a horrible situation. And behavior like that is quite unchristian like anyway. Even if someone doubts or sinned wasn't Christs message love and forgiveness. This illness is not the boys fault or his parents' it is just one of those things.
What happened to 'it is all God's plan' or 'god needed another angel' or even 'he is testing your faith through adversity' certainly all of those sentiments are better than trying to blame anyone.
Cherry Garcia
megamay wrote:I think what that quote means is that if God is great ie omnipotent and able to affect everything however he wants then he isn't good because he isn't very nice. If he is nice then he can't be omnipotent because what nice being would just let all the bad stuff in our world happen.
I totally agree with that statement. But that is not even part of the reason that I am an atheist. I grew up in a sort of religious Methodist family. I tried to believe. I went to different churches took classes and even tried several times to read the Bible. It just doesn't make sense to me. I have a very analytical scientific mind and there are too many things that don't male sense
For a long time I called myself an agnostic hoped for inspiration to believe and reasoned that if God created me then he would have to accept my skepticism because he made my mind.
I have a child. And I think becoming a mother gave me the confidence to accept myself and my beliefs. I am the person I am because I am half my mom and half my dad. My body created my beautiful daughter because that is what it was made to do. God is a creation of the human mind. Created both to explain the unknown, create greater cooperation within communities and male us feel better. But mainly to aid the cooperation because sticking together in groups helped our species survive and one way to bind people and enforce laws is through an unseen impartial spirit.
At least this us what I ' believe
'
This is the exact sentiments of my husband.
I was born Christian and tend to still believe in a spiritual being but I too an beginning to lean this way. I especially like this statement:
I am the person I am because I am half my mom and half my dad. My body created my beautiful daughter because that is what it was made to do. God is a creation of the human mind. Created both to explain the unknown, create greater cooperation within communities and male us feel better. But mainly to aid the cooperation because sticking together in groups helped our species survive and one way to bind people and enforce laws is through an unseen impartial spirit.
Jennifer K.
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Cherry Cola
I put this out there because I am having a hard time keeping my mouth shut with my extended family. My cousin's nephew has been fighting Lukemia this year and the bone marrow transplant they did as a last effort has failed. He has now been sent home to die at If he 10 years old and keeps asking them what he did wrong. They are all posting things and saying things like "god is a good god" and I fail to see it. I just don't get it. If he was good and really in control of people's lives as so many profess then a little boy would not be struck down with cancer and wondering what HE did wrong.[/quote]
Becky, what you are asking for is a God that HAS control over everything. God does not CONTROL everything, not because he can't but because he gave us Free Will.
Do you truly believe that he controls the weather? Or earthquakes? or Volcanoes? I don't believe that He Controls these things. I believe He made the earth and it's amazing how everything works together. It's amazing how the earth moves to build the mountains, how the oceans provide us with weather so we can have rain,... why are hurricanes bad? Because people build homes close to the ocean and they don't like it when their homes get blown away, not because hurricanes are evil, or that God sent one.
Why does this little boy have lukemia? Because he does. Because it's a disease and it exists, and what ever it is that is out there that makes people get this, he got. Did God give it to him? No. Will God try to use this event to bring people to Him? Yes, because He loves his creation. He loves you, he loves that little boy, and He is there for each and every person affected by this horrible disease right now. Also, you said "If he was good and really in control of people's lives as so many profess then a little boy would not be struck down with cancer and wondering what HE did wrong". I have to say it again, God does not control our lives. We can choose to believe in Him and ask him to help us with our choices, and we can choose to live more godly lives, but He will never run our lives for us. Because then we couldn't choose to be with Him. Do you want a god who makes your decisions for you? Then you wouldn't be you. You wouldn't be the beautiful creative creature you are.
I also truly believe He does not give little boys cancer. It is important that this little boy know that he did NOTHING wrong. Cancer is a horrible disease can strike anyone. At his age it is sooo hard to understand that horrible things can happen to anyone. You are personally attached to little boy, and you have heard his question. And it makes you cry out in pain. You have to know in your heart that God would not strike down a little boy with cancer. But you do not question that 1000's of children who are orphaned in Haiti or that they are living in filth there. Why does this one little boy make you question, and the others not? Maybe this is the one that will draw you closer to God, and cause you to seek Him. Ask God why! Ask God what He wants from you. Ask Him how you can make a difference in the world. And then do the hardest thing imaginable....Listen for His answer.
Becky, what you are asking for is a God that HAS control over everything. God does not CONTROL everything, not because he can't but because he gave us Free Will.
Do you truly believe that he controls the weather? Or earthquakes? or Volcanoes? I don't believe that He Controls these things. I believe He made the earth and it's amazing how everything works together. It's amazing how the earth moves to build the mountains, how the oceans provide us with weather so we can have rain,... why are hurricanes bad? Because people build homes close to the ocean and they don't like it when their homes get blown away, not because hurricanes are evil, or that God sent one.
Why does this little boy have lukemia? Because he does. Because it's a disease and it exists, and what ever it is that is out there that makes people get this, he got. Did God give it to him? No. Will God try to use this event to bring people to Him? Yes, because He loves his creation. He loves you, he loves that little boy, and He is there for each and every person affected by this horrible disease right now. Also, you said "If he was good and really in control of people's lives as so many profess then a little boy would not be struck down with cancer and wondering what HE did wrong". I have to say it again, God does not control our lives. We can choose to believe in Him and ask him to help us with our choices, and we can choose to live more godly lives, but He will never run our lives for us. Because then we couldn't choose to be with Him. Do you want a god who makes your decisions for you? Then you wouldn't be you. You wouldn't be the beautiful creative creature you are.
I also truly believe He does not give little boys cancer. It is important that this little boy know that he did NOTHING wrong. Cancer is a horrible disease can strike anyone. At his age it is sooo hard to understand that horrible things can happen to anyone. You are personally attached to little boy, and you have heard his question. And it makes you cry out in pain. You have to know in your heart that God would not strike down a little boy with cancer. But you do not question that 1000's of children who are orphaned in Haiti or that they are living in filth there. Why does this one little boy make you question, and the others not? Maybe this is the one that will draw you closer to God, and cause you to seek Him. Ask God why! Ask God what He wants from you. Ask Him how you can make a difference in the world. And then do the hardest thing imaginable....Listen for His answer.
Cherry Cola
scraptag wrote:I put this out there because I am having a hard time keeping my mouth shut with my extended family. My cousin's nephew has been fighting Lukemia this year and the bone marrow transplant they did as a last effort has failed. He has now been sent home to die at If he 10 years old and keeps asking them what he did wrong. They are all posting things and saying things like "god is a good god" and I fail to see it. I just don't get it. If he was good and really in control of people's lives as so many profess then a little boy would not be struck down with cancer and wondering what HE did wrong.
Becky, what you are asking for is a God that HAS control over everything. God does not CONTROL everything, not because he can't but because he gave us Free Will.
Do you truly believe that he controls the weather? Or earthquakes? or Volcanoes? I don't believe that He Controls these things. I believe He made the earth and it's amazing how everything works together. It's amazing how the earth moves to build the mountains, how the oceans provide us with weather so we can have rain,... why are hurricanes bad? Because people build homes close to the ocean and they don't like it when their homes get blown away, not because hurricanes are evil, or that God sent one.
Why does this little boy have lukemia? Because he does. Because it's a disease and it exists, and what ever it is that is out there that makes people get this, he got. Did God give it to him? No. Will God try to use this event to bring people to Him? Yes, because He loves his creation. He loves you, he loves that little boy, and He is there for each and every person affected by this horrible disease right now. Also, you said "If he was good and really in control of people's lives as so many profess then a little boy would not be struck down with cancer and wondering what HE did wrong". I have to say it again, God does not control our lives. We can choose to believe in Him and ask him to help us with our choices, and we can choose to live more godly lives, but He will never run our lives for us. Because then we couldn't choose to be with Him. Do you want a god who makes your decisions for you? Then you wouldn't be you. You wouldn't be the beautiful creative creature you are.
I also truly believe He does not give little boys cancer. It is important that this little boy know that he did NOTHING wrong. Cancer is a horrible disease can strike anyone. At his age it is sooo hard to understand that horrible things can happen to anyone. You are personally attached to little boy, and you have heard his question. And it makes you cry out in pain. You have to know in your heart that God would not strike down a little boy with cancer. But you do not question that 1000's of children who are orphaned in Haiti or that they are living in filth there. Why does this one little boy make you question, and the others not? Maybe this is the one that will draw you closer to God, and cause you to seek Him. Ask God why! Ask God what He wants from you. Ask Him how you can make a difference in the world. And then do the hardest thing imaginable....Listen for His answer.
[/quote]
But you see this is the problem. The family DOES believe that god is in complete control of their lives. Under their belief system that god punishes the wicked and heals the true believers, this boy is bound to think that it is his fault. I just have such a problem with the whole "God is in control of my life and he is a great and loving God" thing because obviously if he were in control AND great and loving this would not be happening.
Becky
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