ACOT Message Board

Ok, this news story today made me very angry. I may lose some webby friends for what I'm about to say. But, I'm so sick of how many people whine and complain about things they have direct control over.

Bank of America is discontinuing overdrafts on their debit cards. So now, BOA customers will no longer be allowed to overdraw their accounts and will no longer be assessed all of those wicked overdraft fees.

I'm worried now that my bank may jump on this band wagon as well. I utilize this service from time to time and don't mind paying the $29 overdraft fee (per transaction). In fact, I just emailed the corporate offices of my bank and said I would be willing to pay three times that amount to keep the overdraft program in place. I'm an adult. I know when I have money in my account and when I don't. When are we, as a society, going to require people to take personal responsibility for their actions? Why must GROWN people be babysat?

We are a paycheck-to-paycheck family. When I broke my toes a few weeks back, it happened between paydays. I needed medical care and had no money. I had no write a check for my doctors co-pay even though I didn't have the money. I had to use my debit card to get my meds even though I had no money. A few months before that, I was out of diabetic testing supplies, so I overdrew my account. I OVERDREW MY ACCOUNT. Me. Myself. Only ME. Should I not be responsible for this? Why should I expect a free pass on this? For our family, the overdraft has saved us more times than I could count. Another one was three winters ago when the water heater blew - we needed $220 to repair it - we used overdraft. What should we have done, let the pipes freeze until payday arrived 4 days later?

We have found this service to be extremely valuable. If I lose my access because of whiners and complainers who can't pay attention to what they spend, I'm going to be angry.

I know there are instances where there are legitimate challenges to the overdraft fees (deposits no credited timely, electronic payments not stopped in a timely manner, etc.) I'm sure that happens. But, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of those overdrafts are committed by people who know they only have $5 in the account, but really want the new John Grisham book at Borders so they buy it anyway.

Why can't people just face the consequences of the choice they made?

Sorry for rambling. But this story definitely hits home as we have been extremely well served by our banks overdraft service.

I am with you that overdraft has saved my behind a few times. I am in the same paycheck to pacheck situation and it seems that my emergencies tend to happen in between paydays. I think that they should give the customer the option. If you don't want it, then don't have it. But if you do, then sign up for it.

Em, if other banks follow this route I hope we are given a choice as well!


Trish - http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-of-A ... 9.html?x=0

I can see it both ways. We are too a paycheck to paycheck family. However, I have an account set up to automatically withdraw money every month and the past three months they've f'ed up on how much to take out. I was FORCED to pay over $150 in fees to cover a $30 purchase (I didn't know that the other people had taken twice as much as they were supposed to out). I was very upset to stay the least. If that program had been in effect all of that wouldn't have happened and I'd be $150 richer today. However, I agree that we are all adults and should be able to manage money.

GRACEpunches5 wrote:I can see it both ways. We are too a paycheck to paycheck family. However, I have an account set up to automatically withdraw money every month and the past three months they've f'ed up on how much to take out. I was FORCED to pay over $150 in fees to cover a $30 purchase (I didn't know that the other people had taken twice as much as they were supposed to out). I was very upset to stay the least. If that program had been in effect all of that wouldn't have happened and I'd be $150 richer today. However, I agree that we are all adults and should be able to manage money.

That's exactly the kind of situation where you should NOT be penalized. No one should be raked over the coals when it is clearly not just the fault of the customer, but the bank as well.

For once Laura, I completely and whole heartedly agree. My bank has a 25$ overdraft that has saved us several times. They have changed it in the past year that the costumers have an option. They can have their account changed so that you don't have overdraft fees but then you can't go over your limit. And I know how much is in my account everday. It says online.

Bank of America asked it's customers if they wanted this service and they said no. I opted out of it a long time ago- we budget down to zero and move money into 3 other accounts when a paycheck comes in. We have over draft protection but they still charge you a fee to use it. And then they charge you a fee because they charged you a fee. I am sorry you think you need this service, I can definatly understand it would come in handy in a pinch but that money does have to come from some where. It just means you start that much down the next paycheck. I remember being in that situation after my first daughter was born. So I had to work really hard to save a nest egg to keep from being stuck in that position again. I am very opinionated about financial things- I do not believe in debt so I hope this doesn't offend you.

Laura wrote:

GRACEpunches5 wrote:I can see it both ways. We are too a paycheck to paycheck family. However, I have an account set up to automatically withdraw money every month and the past three months they've f'ed up on how much to take out. I was FORCED to pay over $150 in fees to cover a $30 purchase (I didn't know that the other people had taken twice as much as they were supposed to out). I was very upset to stay the least. If that program had been in effect all of that wouldn't have happened and I'd be $150 richer today. However, I agree that we are all adults and should be able to manage money.

That's exactly the kind of situation where you should NOT be penalized. No one should be raked over the coals when it is clearly not just the fault of the customer, but the bank as well.

I agree!! However, when I called both banks involved, (and I was UPSET, mad and crying at the same time), they said it was my fault. They have ways of checking your balance everyday (via the internet or phone) and that I should check before making any purchases. Supposedly, the bank that took too much money are sending me a check but it's been three weeks and nothing yet, so I doubt I'll ever see that money again.

I know some banks have overdraft protection. Have you applied for that. I see where you're going. I miss the days where we could float checks. But there are also people who take advantage of these fees as well. Personally, I don't want to have these fees imposed on us. It drives me insane when dh does this to our account.

ajkulig wrote:I do not believe in debt so I hope this doesn't offend you.

I used to say that, until I had kids and a house to upkeep and the dh was laid off.

ajkulig wrote:Bank of America asked it's customers if they wanted this service and they said no. I opted out of it a long time ago- we budget down to zero and move money into 3 other accounts when a paycheck comes in. We have over draft protection but they still charge you a fee to use it. And then they charge you a fee because they charged you a fee. I am sorry you think you need this service, I can definatly understand it would come in handy in a pinch but that money does have to come from some where. It just means you start that much down the next paycheck. I remember being in that situation after my first daughter was born. So I had to work really hard to save a nest egg to keep from being stuck in that position again. I am very opinionated about financial things- I do not believe in debt so I hope this doesn't offend you.

I'm not offended by that at all. We also decided debt was no for us which is why we have no credit cards. Since we have no credit cards, and are unable to save as much as we need, we benefit from the overdraft protection.



I'm just really hoping that if it comes down to it, our bank will give us the option. The Yahoo! article states that BOA took it further and just stopped it completely.

GRACEpunches5 wrote:

ajkulig wrote:I do not believe in debt so I hope this doesn't offend you.

I used to say that, until I had kids and a house to upkeep and the dh was laid off.

Sing it. Everytime we get something accomplished like repair a car, get a kid in braces, replace a sink, etc. there's another expense waiting in the wings.

GRACEpunches5 wrote:

ajkulig wrote:I do not believe in debt so I hope this doesn't offend you.

I used to say that, until I had kids and a house to upkeep and the dh was laid off.

I really think inflation has made this as bad as it is. I prefer to live debt free too, but we usually live paycheck to paycheck as well. We fight to make it on our own, no help from family from the start. We got rid of our credit cards in the first year. But like they said, life comes up. Expenses come up and we have to pay them.
When you say it just comes from the next check well for us that's fine. We have a bill that takes most of our paycheck so if it falls on that payday then we have to go negative, and it will come out the next payday when we would've had the money for it. Yes the overdraft fees add up, but sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. We are getting better about the pay check to pay check thing. But you can't predict life.

I am actually in complete agreement with this new policy. It doesn't remove the safety net in extreme circumstances at all. It says that if you are at a *register* and try to spend above your limit the charge won't go through but if you got to an *ATM* you CAN still overdraw your account... you just have to approve the $35 overdraft charge. I think that is pretty fair.

Any time I have overdrawn my account it has been because of some silly bureaucratic or computer error... missing paychecks, identity fraud(!), etc. I too have been the victim of a series of INSANE overdraft charges because I had no idea there was a problem, there wasn't supposed to be a problem, and there I was hitting the grocery store, pharmacy, gas station, starbucks.... BOOM: a gazillion dollars in fees. But I never ever would have had that happen if I had known at the first stop that something was amiss. Under the new policy I would find out immediately and deal with the issue without suffering the string of penalties.

And if someone has an emergency and needs that extra money and has no other solution they CAN go to the ATM, make their withdrawal, and pay the $35 fee.

On top of this BoA has a program where you can assign any overdrawn debits to your credit card. That's an additional safety net.

Milmomma said:


When you say it just comes from the next check well for us that's fine. We have a bill that takes most of our paycheck so if it falls on that payday then we have to go negative, and it will come out the next payday when we would've had the money for it. Yes the overdraft fees add up, but sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. We are getting better about the pay check to pay check thing. But you can't predict life.



That's how I feel, too.

I used to be a banker, teller and then a loan officer, and the first thing we were taught is that we were never, ever to have an overdraft on our account. I never did. If I thought I couldn't make it from payday to payday, I stopped writing checks on the account. At one point I simply used the account as a place for them to deposit my paycheck and then I withdrew it and paid everything in cash. I literally had no money to spare. I was a single mother and I was broke beyond belief.

However, the bank is not in the business to cover your overdrafts. If you want a loan in between paychecks then you can go to the loan office and take out one with interest. That is what responsible adults do. I'm afraid you have mistaken what constitutes responsibility in this instance. Writing hot checks can actually land you in jail regardless of how good your intentions were of putting the money back into your account on payday or someday.

I know and completely and totally understand living hand to mouth and paycheck to paycheck. But, I also completely understand a banking institution's unwillingness to allow overdrafts to continue, especially when their own customers are the ones who complain about the fees.

In each of your instances it would be better to have a credit card that is for emergencies only that can be paid off each month when you DO have the money rather than writing hot checks. Credit cards are not the enemy, over use of them is.

Remember too that each time your check is run through the bank the company to whom you have written the check is charged a fee. So in essence your hot checks, no matter well intentioned, are part of the reason insurance rates, medical rates, and everything else has gone up over the years. Those fees have to be recovered somewhere. So while you may be willing to cover your end of the bad check fees, the company to whom you wrote the bad check may not.

To occasionally make a mistake in arithmetic is one thing, everyone does this from time to time, but to purposefully write a hot check is just wrong - and illegal.

ScrapGoo wrote:I am actually in complete agreement with this new policy. It doesn't remove the safety net in extreme circumstances at all. It says that if you are at a *register* and try to spend above your limit the charge won't go through but if you got to an *ATM* you CAN still overdraw your account... you just have to approve the $35 overdraft charge. I think that is pretty fair.

Any time I have overdrawn my account it has been because of some silly bureaucratic or computer error... missing paychecks, identity fraud(!), etc. I too have been the victim of a series of INSANE overdraft charges because I had no idea there was a problem, there wasn't supposed to be a problem, and there I was hitting the grocery store, pharmacy, gas station, starbucks.... BOOM: a gazillion dollars in fees. But I never ever would have had that happen if I had known at the first stop that something was amiss. Under the new policy I would find out immediately and deal with the issue without suffering the string of penalties.

And if someone has an emergency and needs that extra money and has no other solution they CAN go to the ATM, make their withdrawal, and pay the $35 fee.

On top of this BoA has a program where you can assign any overdrawn debits to your credit card. That's an additional safety net.

Another example of fees being applied just for profit when there was proof that the error wasn't yours. I think that's a travesty and absolutely horrible that you were held accountable for all of it.

MLee wrote:I used to be a banker, teller and then a loan officer, and the first thing we were taught is that we were never, ever to have an overdraft on our account. I never did. If I thought I couldn't make it from payday to payday, I stopped writing checks on the account. At one point I simply used the account as a place for them to deposit my paycheck and then I withdrew it and paid everything in cash. I literally had no money to spare. I was a single mother and I was broke beyond belief.

However, the bank is not in the business to cover your overdrafts. If you want a loan in between paychecks then you can go to the loan office and take out one with interest. That is what responsible adults do. I'm afraid you have mistaken what constitutes responsibility in this instance. Writing hot checks can actually land you in jail regardless of how good your intentions were of putting the money back into your account on payday or someday.

I know and completely and totally understand living hand to mouth and paycheck to paycheck. But, I also completely understand a banking institution's unwillingness to allow overdrafts to continue, especially when their own customers are the ones who complain about the fees.

In each of your instances it would be better to have a credit card that is for emergencies only that can be paid off each month when you DO have the money rather than writing hot checks. Credit cards are not the enemy, over use of them is.

Remember too that each time your check is run through the bank the company to whom you have written the check is charged a fee. So in essence your hot checks, no matter well intentioned, are part of the reason insurance rates, medical rates, and everything else has gone up over the years. Those fees have to be recovered somewhere. So while you may be willing to cover your end of the bad check fees, the company to whom you wrote the bad check may not.

To occasionally make a mistake in arithmetic is one thing, everyone does this from time to time, but to purposefully write a hot check is just wrong - and illegal.

I disagree about my activity being illegal. My bank has given me access to a certain amount of money. They offered up the service. I accepted. They will cover my overdraft and I will pay a fee. I could agree with you if no such agreement was ever entered into. If banks, my bank in particular, weren't in the business of covering overdrafts, then they wouldn't offer the service. And, if you want to judge my actions of using my debit card for medications and repairing a water heater as wrong and illegal. So be it. The bank says otherwise.

OOPS!!! I think I just reported my own post---when I was really just trying to delete it!


What I was trying to say was much better said previously.....