Averaged data graphs not displaying peaks over time

[ben_c]

Anyone have any suggestions for this?

[TheWitness]

The Graph Area and Graph Lines are of the "Average" value. If you want to see the "Max" value on the graph, add another line and use the MAX consolidation function. As I see your graphs on the prior page, they look just fine and the legend is only telling you on one of the 1 day intervals, there was a MAX value.

Now there is another interpretation, and that were things between 0.8.6x and 0.8.7b and 0.8.7d changed things. In 0.8.7d, we reverted to the prior behavior where the MAX will be of the Average RRA and not the MAX RRA. So, I am thinking that the solution would be to upgrade.

TheWitness

[ben_c]

I'm running 0.8.7d already.

[TheWitness]

Graph debug please.

TheWitness

[ben_c]

RRDTool Command:

/usr/bin/rrdtool graph - \
--imgformat=PNG \
--start=-86400 \
--end=-300 \
--title=" xxx - Traffic - Gi4/1 - xxx" \
--rigid \
--base=1000 \
--height=120 \
--width=500 \
--alt-autoscale-max \
--lower-limit=0 \
--vertical-label="bits per second" \
--slope-mode \
--font TITLE:10: \
--font AXIS:8: \
--font LEGEND:8: \
--font UNIT:8: \
DEF:a="/da01/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_in:AVERAGE \
DEF:b="/da01/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_out:AVERAGE \
CDEF:cdefa=a,8,* \
CDEF:cdefe=b,8,* \
AREA:cdefa#00CF00FF:"Inbound" \
GPRINT:cdefa:LAST:" Current\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefa:AVERAGE:"Average\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefa:MAX:"Maximum\:%8.2lf%s\n" \
LINE1:cdefe#002A97FF:"Outbound" \
GPRINT:cdefe:LAST:"Current\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefe:AVERAGE:"Average\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefe:MAX:"Maximum\:%8.2lf%s"

RRDTool Says:

OK

This graph for example is currently doing 531mbit/sec, but the yearly graph max value is 220mbit/sec, so the yearly graph does not represent true peaks experienced previously, it averages it out, making them kinda useless for traffic data anyway.

[TheWitness]

Here is the issue:

DEF:a="/da01/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_in:AVERAGE \
DEF:b="/da01/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_out:AVERAGE \
CDEF:cdefa=a,8,* \
CDEF:cdefe=b,8,* \
AREA:cdefa#00CF00FF:"Inbound" \
GPRINT:cdefa:LAST:" Current\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefa:AVERAGE:"Average\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefa:MAX:"Maximum\:%8.2lf%s\n" \
LINE1:cdefe#002A97FF:"Outbound" \
GPRINT:cdefe:LAST:"Current\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefe:AVERAGE:"Average\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefe:MAX:"Maximum\:%8.2lf%s"

The "MAX" is from the "AVERAGE" RRA, so the max on the legend is from the averages from the period.

The workaround would be to add another line for the graph that graphs the "MAX" in addition to the EXISTING "Average". However, I am uncertain if that will do anything on the legends other than causing more confusion. Actually the 0.8.7b behavior would have been better for you, I think.

This is beginning to piss me off. There is no good answer.

TheWitness

[TheWitness]

If you test the 0.8.7b rrd.php, does it fix this? Apply that file and post the graph debug again.

TheWitness

[ben_c]

Well this is a debug from the same graph in 0.8.7b (i'm running an install of both while I investigate if it's worth upgrading my production box to d)

RRDTool Command:

/usr/local/rrdtool/bin/rrdtool graph - \
--imgformat=PNG \
--start=-86400 \
--end=-300 \
--title=" xxx - Traffic - Gi4/1 - xxx" \
--rigid \
--base=1000 \
--height=120 \
--width=500 \
--alt-autoscale-max \
--lower-limit=0 \
--vertical-label="bits per second" \
--slope-mode \
--font TITLE:10: \
--font AXIS:8: \
--font LEGEND:8: \
--font UNIT:8: \
DEF:a="/usr/local/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_in:AVERAGE \
DEF:b="/usr/local/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_in:MAX \
DEF:c="/usr/local/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_out:AVERAGE \
DEF:d="/usr/local/cacti/rra/xxx_traffic_in_23533.rrd":traffic_out:MAX \
CDEF:cdefa=a,8,* \
CDEF:cdefd=b,8,* \
CDEF:cdefe=c,8,* \
CDEF:cdefh=d,8,* \
AREA:cdefa#00CF00FF:"Inbound" \
GPRINT:cdefa:LAST:" Current\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefa:AVERAGE:"Average\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefd:MAX:"Maximum\:%8.2lf%s\n" \
LINE1:cdefe#002A97FF:"Outbound" \
GPRINT:cdefe:LAST:"Current\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefe:AVERAGE:"Average\:%8.2lf%s" \
GPRINT:cdefh:MAX:"Maximum\:%8.2lf%s"

RRDTool Says:

OK

0.8.7b displays the correct MAX values on the yearly, but then doesn't graph those same values correctly (averages them out i'm guessing). This is using the default cacti interface - traffic template. I would've thought what I'm expecting should be default behavior. When you look at a yearly graph, you want to know that 6 months ago you hit peaks of x, not that you've done an average throughput of x which isn't very representative.

[TheWitness]

We are going to have to resolve this. It's not going to be easy. So for now the 0.8.7b file is the one to use. I'll look after this again and see if it's worth a patch.

TheWitness

[ben_c]

Gah. Thanks Larry

[gandalf]

I do NOT share your opinion. IMHO,

The Graph Area and Graph Lines are of the "Average" value. If you want to see the "Max" value on the graph, add another line and use the MAX consolidation function. As I see your graphs on the prior page, they look just fine and the legend is only telling you on one of the 1 day intervals, there was a MAX value.

Now there is another interpretation, and that were things between 0.8.6x and 0.8.7b and 0.8.7d changed things. In 0.8.7d, we reverted to the prior behavior where the MAX will be of the Average RRA and not the MAX RRA. So, I am thinking that the solution would be to upgrade.

TheWitness

is quite correct. The graph debug does not help here, 087b is still broken from my point of view.
The _solution_ is again to add a LINE1 using MAX along with and AREA using AVERAGE for both In/Out.
To verify this, I need a screenshot of the Graph Template. I am able to provide such a Graph Template, but not from home
Reinhard

[TheWitness]

I do NOT share your opinion. IMHO,

The Graph Area and Graph Lines are of the "Average" value. If you want to see the "Max" value on the graph, add another line and use the MAX consolidation function. As I see your graphs on the prior page, they look just fine and the legend is only telling you on one of the 1 day intervals, there was a MAX value.

Now there is another interpretation, and that were things between 0.8.6x and 0.8.7b and 0.8.7d changed things. In 0.8.7d, we reverted to the prior behavior where the MAX will be of the Average RRA and not the MAX RRA. So, I am thinking that the solution would be to upgrade.

TheWitness

is quite correct. The graph debug does not help here, 087b is still broken from my point of view.
The _solution_ is again to add a LINE1 using MAX along with and AREA using AVERAGE for both In/Out.
To verify this, I need a screenshot of the Graph Template. I am able to provide such a Graph Template, but not from home
Reinhard

The problem is that if he adds a line with the "MAX" on it, and then add's GPRINTS for its legend, will those GPRINTS take the "AVERAGE" again? In other words the wrong DEF? Is is all well and good to add the line using the MAX, but how does one build a legend for that, or am I getting really old...

TheWitness

[gandalf]

The problem is that if he adds a line with the "MAX" on it, and then add's GPRINTS for its legend, will those GPRINTS take the "AVERAGE" again?

No, they should take the MAX data source as expected
Reinhard

[ben_c]

Guys, as per my previous message, i'm using the DEFAULT Interface - Traffic template that comes with cacti, unedited.

I've attached a shot of it anyways.

The solution seems fairly simple to me (albeit i'm layman!). Take the MAX values as correctly displayed in 0.8.7b and draw them, not average them out like 0.8.7d is doing.

[gandalf]

087b is broken in a very delicate way. This "error" gives you your results "by accident", not "by correct definition".
And yes, I do not love the default templates when it comes to "sizing analysis". "Sizing analysis" will require the peak usage to be shown. Cacti uses "AVERAGE" for most default graph templates. But for "sizing analysis", "MAX" would be "correct". It took me quite 2 years to really understand that (yes, I'm a bit slow).

That's why I suggested to change the graph template.
For sake of convenience I attached my example. It will MODIFY your existing Graph Template. That's why you may want to apply it to a test system first. Please do NOT override your RRA settings when importing this (not overriding is the default since 087), as I modified our RRA settings

Reinhard