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FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

I get the previous posts about docking energy, but if my green line is lower than the red line thats good right? I saw that somebody got a -131. Wow. I have never seen mine that low, but I dont sit around watching it either.

running almost two months and will hit 100,000 points tomorrow. biggrin

Total Run Time (y:d:h:m:s) 0:116:15:49:37 (#20,112)
Points Generated (Rank) 95,184 (#14,907)
Results Returned (Rank) 405 (#14,820)
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

Sigh. . .
I hate exposing my ignorance, but here is the explanation from http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/help/viewTopic.do?shortName=faahagent
Panel C: Best Docking Energy
We see here the best docking energy in the current population, plotted over the course of the current docking, shown as a green solid line. The red-dotted line shows the same kind of graph, but for the best docking achieved so far. As the current docking proceeds, at the end of every generation, the green graph gets updated.

Whoever wrote that description knew exactly what was going on, but I do not understand 'current population' or 'generation'. I know that FAAH updates the check point file each time the green line reaches the end and starts over. So that is a 'docking' in the terminology being used, but I suspect that is quite different from what I mean by 'docking attempt'.

thinking
The way I read the description, I would like to see the red suddenly drop below the green, or at least suddenly drop to create a lower red-green line, indicating a lower energy docking site had been located. But I have not seen that happen.

tired
Maybe somebody who really understands this will jump in with an explanation.

mycrofth
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retsof
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

thinking
The way I read the description, I would like to see the red suddenly drop below the green, or at least suddenly drop to create a lower red-green line, indicating a lower energy docking site had been located. But I have not seen that happen.
They would have to recompute the chance of a new dotted red line after every tick of the green line, to see whether the dotted red line would have a new higher energy and move or not. If so, it would have to then redraw the graph. All of that constant checking and regraphing the current plot would be a huge waste of crunching time.

You also don't know what would happen to the dotted red line on the right. Horizontal is assumed based on the data to the left but there may have been previous lower energy on the right. The red line would have to be partially new and partially old. A lower green energy could always be found, meaning another dotted red line recompute to that new point.

I think it only checks after the green line has finished, a checkpoint has been saved and it is ready to start over.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by retsof at Jan 20, 2006 2:56:18 PM]
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tongue Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

Right, but this explanation is what slipped me up. It says "We see here the best docking energy in the current population, plotted over the course of the current docking, shown as a green solid line." Is that the current WU I am working or what the rest of you suckers have already crunched? As far as I can tell, it looks like the green line is the WU you are currently working on, and and the red dotted line is what has already been achieved by other WU's. So if my green line drops below the red, I am making progress. Otherwise I am simply eliminating a bad molecule from the lot of candidates.

Total Run Time (y:d:h:m:s) 0:125:11:55:38 (#18,801)
Points Generated (Rank) 100,899 (#13,993)
Results Returned (Rank) 429 (#13,990)

Should hit 200k in 25 days...
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

biggrin
That question I can answer. All the scaling, etc, is based on your work unit alone. Yes, that means a lot of poor or so-so possibilities get returned to the server, but it can power through all the possibilities quickly enough. This way if an error causes an impossibly good answer for one work unit, we do not lose all the realistic possibilities in other work units.
mycrofth
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retsof
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

I had one workunit that completed no dockings at all while I was watching it finish. I looked at the UDMonitor log to see that it was taking checkpoints.

No dockings means no green lines and no dotted red lines at all. It's still good data. They also want to know what DOESN'T work.
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Alther
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

I'll try to clear a few things up. My definitions aren't going to be completely accurate, but you should get an idea of what's going on. I'll let the scientists give more detailed explainations of the terms.

* The graphs are for the current workunit only.

* The length of the graph represents a single, complete docking. A docking is composed of thousands of docking attempts over a "population".

* A "population" is composed of (typically) hundreds of "individuals". A single docking calculation iterating over the population represents a generation. The best (lowest) energy of the generation is plotted as a dot on the green graph.

* The dotted red line represents the graph of the best docking run seen so far for this workunit. "Best docking" meaning the docking that had the best (lowest) energy.

* The green line represents the current docking. It may or may not dip below the red line. At the end of a docking, if the energy of the green line is less than the red line, the green graph becomes the new red graph.

As for not seeing anything plotted, that's currently possible because we only display dockings that fall below a certain threshold. As long as the percentage keeps climbing, the workunit is running fine. I know it's a bit confusing, so I have changed this behavior and you should now always see something plotted in the C panel. This change will be deployed very soon.

I hope I didn't confuse folks any more.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Alther at Jan 21, 2006 2:47:30 PM]
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

rose
Thanks, Alther.
I think that clears up some of my confusion. The remaining mystery is concentrated in:
A "population" is composed of (typically) hundreds of "individuals". A single docking calculation iterating over the population represents a generation.


I'll wait for a project scientist to explain a single docking calculation iterating over individuals and what the relationship is between one generation and the next.

tongue
mycrofth
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retsof
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

As for not seeing anything plotted, that's currently possible because we only display dockings that fall below a certain threshold. As long as the percentage keeps climbing, the workunit is running fine. I know it's a bit confusing, so I have changed this behavior and you should now always see something plotted in the C panel. This change will be deployed very soon.
I had been using version 4.0.3.1 and will continue to finish those packets as they come up. Today's new program download is on the order of 915,000 bytes and contains a new version 4.0.3.2. We can watch for the new threshholdless behavio(u)r in the Best Docking Energy graph.
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Re: FAAH Should the green line be lower than the red dotted line?

rose
Thanks, Alther.
I think that clears up some of my confusion. The remaining mystery is concentrated in:
A "population" is composed of (typically) hundreds of "individuals". A single docking calculation iterating over the population represents a generation.


I'll wait for a project scientist to explain a single docking calculation iterating over individuals and what the relationship is between one generation and the next.

tongue
mycrofth


Well, I may not be a project scientist, but I think this is what they mean.

Population- the set of all possible dockings for a protein
Individual- one docking
Generation- a sample size of dockings (one work unit)
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