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RicktheBrick
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Folding@home wild claim

1. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/folding-at-...ters-coronavirus-covid-19
2. https://stats.foldingathome.org/os
3. https://stats.foldingathome.org/project
Article 1 claims folding@home to be more powerful than the top 7 supercomputers, I find this claim to be rediculus since I do not bellieve that WCG is even close to that. So I began to investigate and found these discrepancies. Article 1 states that the top 7 supercomputers have around 27 million cores and article 2 states folding@home has around 3 million cores. So how can 3 million cores(bought by the average computer user) beat around 9 times as many cores(bought by experts)? Article 3 has the top 100 contributors and if there wu are even close to WCG results I would be in their top 25. I believe that if IBM thought that WCG had even cloes to that powere they would cease all projects and have WCG just work on the coronavirus. This proves that IBM can program supercomputers to do what we are doing so it is probably time to close WCG. I would quit but I do not like the idea that I would go down in my standings in the top 5,000.
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RicktheBrick
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

I Forgot that 3 million cores doing 474,000 trillion flops means that each core would have to do around 150 billion flops and that is way beyound even the most expenesive home computer.
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Former Member
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Re: Folding@home wild claim


Article 1 claims folding@home to be more powerful than the top 7 supercomputers, I find this claim to be rediculus since I do not bellieve that WCG is even close to that.

Yes, I believe the output of Folding@home is way above that of WCG. Boincstats claims WCG to do 507 TeraFLOPS, whereas Folding@home claims almost 500,000 TeraFLOPS. Comparing FLOPS can be a tricky thing and can be like comparing apples to oranges, but still, Folding@home's output is far larger. Part of that may be explained by higher user numbers. But Folding being done almost exclusively on GPUs is the most important part of the answer, as these are way more powerful than CPUs. To anticipate the question why WCG does not run on GPU: not all problems are suitable to be solved effectively by GPUs.


Article 1 states that the top 7 supercomputers have around 27 million cores and article 2 states folding@home has around 3 million cores. So how can 3 million cores(bought by the average computer user) beat around 9 times as many cores(bought by experts)?

Also that has to do with CPU vs GPU: there are 3 million CPU cores on folding, but also almost 300,000 GPUs. The CPU cores only provide an insignificant part of Folding's output.


Article 3 has the top 100 contributors and if there wu are even close to WCG results I would be in their top 25.

I do not remember, if the average Folding WU takes longer than the average WCG WU. But it surely takes a lot more FLOPS to finish one. Again, also this has to do with CPU vs GPU. So don't expect yourself in the top 25...


I believe that if IBM thought that WCG had even cloes to that powere they would cease all projects and have WCG just work on the coronavirus.

People often assume, you can just throw computing power at a problem and then a vaccine or cure comes out. In reality, doing computer simulations is only a small part of a process. It can help, but many more things are needed. Apart from that, IBM does not design projects themselves. They only support projects from scientists who are in need of computing power and approach them.
Besides that, I believe there is such a focus on the Coronavirus (rightly so), that funding is certainly not the bottleneck. If some institution has a good idea for simulations to fight the virus, I believe getting the computing ressources is less of a problem. However, the problems WCG supports, often have trouble to get funding and in many cases could never obtain such large computing resources. Either, because they are ground research, not likely to lead to a major breakthrough soon, or because they are about diseases affecting mostly the 3rd world, and therefore unlikely to draw the attention of big pharma.


This proves that IBM can program supercomputers to do what we are doing so it is probably time to close WCG.

Not sure what you mean by that. But if you mean that all the work WCG volunteers are doing could also be done on supercomputers, you are right. It is only a funding problem, many researchers cannot afford expensive super computer time. And I think giving people who are interested in helping, an easy way to do so, is a great idea. Some people here are donating serious money in the form of electricity bills and hardware. And they are also spending much time in building and maintaining their hardware. For me it is a good way to donate money to a good cause - maybe better and certainly more interesting (for techies at least) than donating to a charity.
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Falconet
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

Like Sheridon said, Folding@home uses a lot of GPU's. It's basically a GPU project and has been getting huge support and publicity.

They said they gained 400,000 users in the last couple of weeks because of SARS-CoV-2. Microsoft Azure offered them servers to ease the huge overload they were having.

Many companies are giving them huge numbers of computing power: https://www.coindesk.com/thousands-of-these-c...g-on-coronavirus-research


WCG is CPU-only so projects like Folding@Home, SETI@Home, Einstein@Home, all have higher computing power. Even Rosetta@Home, which is also CPU-only has more than double the teraflops of WCG because of the virus.
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

In specialized calculations, and they are specialized, kind of RISC, a GPU core can do 20 fold that of a CPU core, so Article 1 states that the top 7 supercomputers have around 27 million cores and article 2 states folding@home has around 3 million cores has a certain amount of credence to be more powerful. IBM's world #1 supercomputer has thousands of GPU's in it though. A number of supercomputers have.

Remember HCC... jobs that run multiple hours and done when ported to GPU in minutes, so much so that the setup time on the CPU and wrap up was often longer than the GPU time?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Mar 24, 2020 11:04:02 AM]
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jackielan2000
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

In specialized calculations, and they are specialized, kind of RISC, a GPU core can do 20 fold that of a CPU core, so Article 1 states that the top 7 supercomputers have around 27 million cores and article 2 states folding@home has around 3 million cores has a certain amount of credence to be more powerful. IBM's world #1 supercomputer has thousands of GPU's in it though. A number of supercomputers have.

Remember HCC... jobs that run multiple hours and done when ported to GPU in minutes, so much so that the setup time on the CPU and wrap up was often longer than the GPU time?


IMHO, no computer can surpass the power of Android devices, well, theoratically. 1.2Billion Android phones were manufactured in 2019 alone. Before that, 1.4B in 2018. If just 1/3 of them, each using only 1 out of 4 or 8 cores, were used to run this kind of projects, we'd get the computing power of more than Top10 supercomputers combined.
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KLiK
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

That is nice, but F@h does not have (as far as I know) GPU & CPU temp monitoring, which is essential in the "long run" if you want to do calcs. All my past here & on SETi@home (with GPUs, where I'm top contributor from Croatia) gives me some knowledge about it & credibility to speak about it.

I have fried several GPUs with not monitoring temps. Imagine the loss of the GPUs in this time of shortage of computer parts? So NO, I'm not going to F@h by far.

Sticking up to BOINC related projects. cool
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Falconet
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

That is nice, but F@h does not have (as far as I know) GPU & CPU temp monitoring, which is essential in the "long run" if you want to do calcs. All my past here & on SETi@home (with GPUs, where I'm top contributor from Croatia) gives me some knowledge about it & credibility to speak about it.

I have fried several GPUs with not monitoring temps. Imagine the loss of the GPUs in this time of shortage of computer parts? So NO, I'm not going to F@h by far.

Sticking up to BOINC related projects. cool


KLiK,

Not sure what you mean as neither BOINC nor any of the BOINC projects have CPU or GPU temp monitoring. You have to use external software (Hwinfo, in my case) for that.
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- AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
- AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
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Falconet
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

"Thanks to our AMAZING community, we’ve crossed the exaFLOP barrier! That’s over a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 operations per second, making us ~10x faster than the IBM Summit!"

If I'm reading the OS (https://stats.foldingathome.org/os) page right, it's actually 1.5 exaFLOPs. I'm assuming they mean the x86 TFLOPS figure.
https://twitter.com/foldingathome/status/1242918035788365830
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- AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W
- AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
- AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Falconet at Mar 25, 2020 9:11:11 PM]
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supdood
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Re: Folding@home wild claim

One thing I'm unsure of here: are they stating that they have this many FLOPS as an average for actual computations or is this their total FLOP capacity based on CPUs and GPUs that have returned work in the past 50 days? My interpretation is that it is the latter and therefore a kind of useless (and misleading) statistic.
https://stats.foldingathome.org/os
https://foldingathome.org/support/faq/flops/

This would be in contrast to BOINC that shows the actual average FLOPS for calculations done in the past 24 hours: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/ (see Computing Power section).
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by supdood at Mar 26, 2020 11:18:47 AM]
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