Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Locked
Total posts in this thread: 16
Posts: 16   Pages: 2   [ Previous Page | 1 2 ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 3457 times and has 15 replies Next Thread
KLiK
Master Cruncher
Croatia
Joined: Nov 13, 2006
Post Count: 3108
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Re: Duplicate Efforts?

-1

If you want to do Rosetta work, then go to Rosetta and do Rosetta work. Let's not combine projects and mess everything up for everyone. Additionally, projects came to WCG expecting resources and WCG graciously offered them. Taking resources away could impact their project. They don't have funding and grad students forever. If MIP wants to work on COVID proteins, fine. Although I'm sure that is not what their funding was based on..

That is NOT how WCG has conducted their help to research in the past.

Previously on WCG we participated in projects:
- HPF1 & HPF2 - which also has conducted some research against SARS candidates
- IADS - which has helped against all flu version & was launched amid H1N1 crisis
- OET1 - amid Ebola crisis
- ZIKA - amid Zika virus crisis

So why not now?
We don't ask people to go to Rosetta.
We don't ask techs to put Rosetta jobs in some other Project.

All we ask is techs to contact Rosetta@home & open a channel towards Rosetta@home & put another research project named COVID-19, only for COVID-19 WUs from Rosetta@home.
If you think that your computer power are not good for that project - good, don' select it & don't crunch that project.

Any slowdown on MIP1 project is on their own account...as I limit the MIP jobs to use 1 per CPU (not 1 per core, 1 per CPU), as their app is (to be honest) XXXX & they have done nothing to make it better.
So we can talk about "wasted resources" more, if you do more than 1 MIP jobs per core. We all know that.

& right now, all World is struggling with this epidemic...thinking that cancer cure is going to change something? LoL, in last 48h 2 oncology patients died with infection from COVID-19 in my country...healthy people don't die, they walk it over - most of them without problems...old people, hypertension patients, diabetes patients, oncology patients, pulmonary patients - they all are going to die, if the cure is not here within months.
You can do your calculations. BTW, do also ones for your parents or grandparents.
cool

Admin note: edited to remove obscenity
----------------------------------------
oldies:UDgrid.org & PS3 Life@home


non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by caitilarkin at Mar 27, 2020 9:58:23 PM]
[Mar 27, 2020 6:06:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher
USA
Joined: Jul 13, 2009
Post Count: 1066
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Re: Duplicate Efforts?

Rosetta is perfectly capable of contacting WCG if they want to. But they would have to go through the application process, which is a bit if bureaucracy that includes a scientific review panel. That is all very necessary in most cases, no doubt.

But if Rosetta needs more capacity, they will just contact AWS, which they have probably done already. They don't need our advice on the subject anyway.

Calm down.
[Mar 27, 2020 6:31:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Falconet
Master Cruncher
Portugal
Joined: Mar 9, 2009
Post Count: 3294
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Re: Duplicate Efforts?

Rosetta is perfectly capable of contacting WCG if they want to. But they would have to go through the application process, which is a bit if bureaucracy that includes a scientific review panel. That is all very necessary in most cases, no doubt.

But if Rosetta needs more capacity, they will just contact AWS, which they have probably done already. They don't need our advice on the subject anyway.

Calm down.


+1.

If Rosetta@home wants to send work via WCG, then they can ask WCG for a sort of streamlined temporary project, if they think it's worth it. Rosetta@home has about 3 times more computing power than WCG (BOINCStats says WCG has 517 TeraFLOPS vs 1.52 PetaFLOPS on the Rosetta homepage). BOINC@TACC approached Rosetta@home on the forums about making their TACC (not the BOINC part) computing power available to them (several petaflops, per the post).


Personally, the Rosetta@home tasks as well as MIP's don't work well on my Ryzen 1400, as running them causes quite a few computation errors, even causing MCM or SCC tasks to error out if they were running at the time. But then again, my computer no longer doesn't boot up with the 2 sticks of RAM in it, just either 1 of them (when it did boot up with both, it would crash randomly). They run fine on the Ryzen 2500U (although I've had 2 tasks also erroring out today, one Rosetta Mini and one Rosetta 4.07, the mini also errored out on the other host it was sent to).
Their COVID-19 work units take a good bit of RAM, over 1 GB each. Still, checking their forums and randomly looking at other users computers, you can see there are quite a few computation errors going around, so that would be something WCG would need to look at before even considering to run Rosetta work, in my opinion.


Relax.
----------------------------------------


AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W
AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Falconet at Mar 27, 2020 7:05:48 PM]
[Mar 27, 2020 6:52:44 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Re: Duplicate Efforts?

To everybody who's saying it's not possible, another project is now posting on Rosetta's forums asking to do precisely what I suggested.

https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=13624#92232

The faster we bring the COVID-19 work units to a close, faster we know IF this process can find a cure. If it can, and it's an existing pharmaceutical, maybe it can be applied before everybody dies from it.

There are absolutely projects that are more and less important on WCG.
You can rank them by deaths per year, and COVID is high on the list for projected 2020 deaths.

Donseke- telling me that I can personally send some compute power over to Rosetta and anything else is 'messing things up for everybody' is neither meaningful nor civil. The Microbiome team is living on the same world as the rest of us. Some people are sacrificing everything by treating others without access to fresh protective gear. Doing computer work in a different order is not too much to ask.

I guess when one is panicked, all thinking shuts down.
BOINC@TACC offering resources to Rosetta is very thoughtful but they weren't doing anything anyway, at least on the BOINC side. People have been complaining for months about there not being any work. Does Rosetta have to conform to BOINC@TACC or does BOINC@TACC have to change their setup to run Rosetta work as is? How much work is it going to take to adapt but when you aren't doing anything anyway what does it matter? Completely different thing from WCG.
Concerning WCG and Rosetta, who has to adapt and what is the effort? First, since users can't pick COVID work, How is WCG going to pick COVID work? One might say, well, Rosetta will allow it. How? I would postulate that their infrastructure isn't setup to do that. If it was, users would be able to pick COVID exclusively. Once again, what's it going to take to make it happen? Then, let's say Rosetta updated their infrastructure, and work was able to come to WCG. My guess would be that WCG would have to write something to request work from Rosetta (not a trivial undertaking). That's the bOINC way. Servers don't send, clients ask. But then what? Does this work go into the WCG database, work scheduler, assimilator? Where does validation happen? At WCG or Rosetta? If not at WCG, then how does WCG keep their database up to date and clean and accurately reflect what is out in the wild and what has been returned? What about file uploads? WCG doesn't have spare storage. Remember? It could go back to Baker Labs like CEP went directly back to Harvard but WCG was loading and tracking their work. Why would Rosetta want to load work and send it to WCG and then have WCG reload the work into their system so they can send it out and track. What could conceivably go wrong with any of that? Yes, if there is a will, there is a way but at what cost and how long will it take? Still waiting on 2 other climate projects if I remember right. By the time all the gotchas got worked out, the pandemic will be over.

Me asking you to go Rosetta if you choose to run Rosetta work is meaningful. We can debate whether it is civil. You asking WCG and Rosetta to completely redo their processes and systems to adapt to your thinking and possibly messing everything up for others is selfish and unnecessary. It's real easy for you to go to Rosetta and donate to your heart's content, it impacts no one other than you.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Doneske at Mar 27, 2020 8:36:15 PM]
[Mar 27, 2020 8:27:54 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Re: Duplicate Efforts?

All we ask is techs to contact Rosetta@home & open a channel towards Rosetta@home & put another research project named COVID-19, only for COVID-19 WUs from Rosetta@home.
If you think that your computer power are not good for that project - good, don' select it & don't crunch that project.

Any slowdown on MIP1 project is on their own account...as I limit the MIP jobs to use 1 per CPU (not 1 per core, 1 per CPU), as their app is (to be honest) "***" & they have done nothing to make it better.
So we can talk about "wasted resources" more, if you do more than 1 MIP jobs per core. We all know that.

I would watch your wording while posting. Haven't you been warned before? Learn to express ideas without resorting to those types of words. There is nothing wrong with civil debate. It's healthy.
Why would WCG want to do that? They have enough to do trying to get climate projects out and other things. What makes you think the WCG even has the resources to accept and handle jobs from Rosetta. What makes you think that Rosetta could handle several 100 thousand more jobs to WCG? Not to mention all the intricacies to make that happen and have to undo it all when the "crisis" is over.
MIP is using Rosetta just like Rosetta is using Rosetta. They use the same program. Rosetta is just as bad as MIP at using memory. Which makes sense, they are running the same program. Let's see, you want WCG and Rosetta to jump through hoops to satisfy your request and then you are telling people if they don't want to run the program, deselect it and run something else. Sorry, I don't get it. Instead of having to deselect it and create issues for others, why don't you go to Rosetta and run Rosetta there and folks that don't want to run Rosetta, they can stay here and run WCG work. That seems a whole lot simpler.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by ErikaT at Mar 30, 2020 1:23:33 PM]
[Mar 27, 2020 8:51:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
caitilarkin
Former World Community Grid Admin
USA
Joined: Nov 4, 2015
Post Count: 331
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Re: Duplicate Efforts?

We are locking this thread.

World Community Grid encourages civil debates and productive discussion. Swearing, arguing, personal attacks, and other uncivil behavior are a violation of forum rules. And at a time like this, when much of the globe is under enormous stress due to a pandemic and scientists are racing against time to try to help, we are not going to allow this type of behavior in a forum dedicated to scientific research.

Any future threads that show signs of going off the rails like this will be locked and/or deleted as well.
[Mar 27, 2020 10:10:06 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 16   Pages: 2   [ Previous Page | 1 2 ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread