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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 10
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caseyd11
Cruncher Joined: Oct 15, 2011 Post Count: 4 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hi, first time on the forum. I have two unused Galaxy phones (s3 & s4) with Android 4.3 and 4.4.2, respectively. When computing while on the USB charger, the CPU draws more current than can be carried over USB.
Rather than the phone acknowledging a discharged battery and thereby signaling the BOINC manager to pause computation, it will show a 100% charge until the phone is disconnected from the computer. If this isn't done on a regular interval to force a refresh of the battery meter, the phone will flatline and shut off. Is this a known issue, and are there any workarounds besides using a higher current AC charger or reducing power usage through power saving mode in the OS or limiting the cores available to WCG? Thank you! |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I have only had this issue with my S3 while using USB off of my laptop. I have not experienced this behavior while plugged into a wall charger. I also don't think it is a WCG or BOINC issue, but rather Android. I also run Majestic-12 while tethered to my cell phone since I have unlimited data on the phone connection. I was figuring the extra consumption in conjunction with the BOINC usage was over doing it. But, you have confirmed it is probably just because of the USB power draw off of the computer.
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I'm with Coleslaw, except it may not be just Android but have something to do with the way the PC handles charging devices over USB.
----------------------------------------I have a Galaxy Reverb phone and until I shut down certain features like mobile data, I was getting pretty high battery usage. I noticed that if I left the phone plugged in for a couple of days, when I unplugged it, the battery would be dead even though it had remained continuously attached. So I decided instead to use a wall charger that I knew would deliver an constant current and the problem was solved. edit: It just occurred to me that this might have something to do with the way USB ports handle external hard drives. IIRC there is a feature in Windows (or maybe it's the bios) that determines if external drives can be put to sleep. My guess is that the OS/bios treats the phone as an external drive and once it stops drawing power for a certain period of time, it 'puts the device to sleep.' So what is probably happening is the device is being fully charged but the USB port stops providing current after that happens. Why the Android OS is reporting 100% charge is probably a bug in the OS though so you might want to upgrade to the latest version compatible with your phones to see if that helps. The Reverb is a fairly new phone so I don't think it will fix the charge-then-discharge problem but it might fix the battery indicator. ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Apr 7, 2014 2:17:04 AM] |
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noderaser
Senior Cruncher United States Joined: Jun 6, 2006 Post Count: 297 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I agree with the above suggestions; see if the behavior persists while you're plugged into a wall charger. Many USB ports on a PC are limited to a max of 500 mA current, and can sometimes be less because it's controlled by the computer. A dedicated charger can put out as much as 5 A, according to the USB electrical specs--but some devices have gone outside the specs (especially larger tablets) and have chargers that output more. You might take a look at the provided charger that came with your phone and check its current output rating, to get an idea of what it swallows when charging.
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caseyd11
Cruncher Joined: Oct 15, 2011 Post Count: 4 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Thanks for the replies, everyone. I would like to stay with the computer for charging because it has a more efficient power supply than the little wall warts which come with the phones. I checked the device manager in Win7 and verified that the phones are staying in D0 state (full power, active), so the standard 500mA from a full powered USB just can't keep up. Oh well; I can just limit the compute speed. I just wanted to check with the pros to see if there was a simple software adjustment I could do to keep the phone honest before handicapping it. Too bad this is a common Android issue...I imagine this scenario is quite common out in the wild as phones get bigger and take on more powerful roles in computing.
PS -- I'll try setting BOINC to compute above 90% rather than 100% and see if the charge meter remains accurate as long as the charge controller doesn't get parked in the "battery full" position like with computing only at 100%. |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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There are new transformers - linear transformers[/url] I think - that are much more efficient than the old wall warts. You can usually tell just by looking at them. They are much smaller and lighter for a given output wattage.
----------------------------------------These have been around for a while but it took years for manufacturers to switch over to these so pretty much any one you buy now will probably be of this type. I'm using one like this ![]() edit: I was mistaken about what the new wall adapters are called. They are really SMPSs: In the early twenty-first century, switched-mode power supplies (SMPSs ) became almost ubiquitous for this purpose. Mains voltage is rectified to a high direct voltage driving a switching circuit, which contains a transformer operating at a high frequency and outputs direct current at the desired voltage. The high-frequency ripple is more easily filtered out than mains-frequency. The high frequency allows the transformer to be small, which reduces its losses; and the switching regulator can be much more efficient than a linear regulator. The result is a much more efficient, smaller, and lighter device. Safety is ensured, as in the older linear circuit, because there is still a transformer which electrically isolates the output from the mains. ![]() ![]() [Edit 3 times, last edit by twilyth at Apr 7, 2014 6:02:21 PM] |
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caseyd11
Cruncher Joined: Oct 15, 2011 Post Count: 4 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Twilyth -- Yes, those are actually the style which came with the phones. I just figured be less efficient than the 80+ gold power supply I use. I acknowledge that efficiency at such a low current is almost entirely semantics, and in all honesty, I'm just trying to keep all the crunching on one system.
----------------------------------------An update for anyone trying to juggle all these different power supply/consumption/management variables, I have found this issue can be resolved by simply setting the minimum battery percentage to a value other than 100%. The charge meter and the associated compute suspend works normally. Edit: unless the charger gets ahead and fully charges the battery followed by the charger falling behind...same thing, then. [Edit 1 times, last edit by caseyd11 at Apr 8, 2014 2:09:22 AM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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That's interesting. So to make sure I understood, if you set the minimum battery level to say 90%, as the battery drains it will then recharge?
----------------------------------------That seems odd since the version of BOINC I downloaded doesn't even give me the option of running the program while on battery power. Do you think it's possible that it never actually switches to battery power but since the drain is greater than what it can draw from the USB port that it does actually dip into the battery? ![]() ![]() |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Well....I have had mine set to suspend BOINC if it is below 90% for months, so your results are not what I witnessed. My phone will charge to 100% and then when I remove the phone a few seconds later it will drop to like 5%. This is of course after running all night long attached to the laptop. And like I said, I also use my phone to tether the internet to the laptop when this happens. I don't charge my phone on the PC normally, so it never happens when plugged into the wall.
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caseyd11
Cruncher Joined: Oct 15, 2011 Post Count: 4 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Twilyth: No, the phone won't acknowledge a discharged battery once it is "fully charged". The benefit is that the phone just won't charge all the way, avoiding it altogether. I'm using the newest version of BOINC, 7.3.7, which allows compute on battery and setting the minimum battery percent in 10% intervals.
----------------------------------------Coleslaw: After a few days and reviewing the event log, I'm going to abandon USB charging altogether, especially for the 4 core Galaxy S4. It has a duty cycle of approximately a 50% when using all cores. And the 2 core S4 will alternate between charging fully and discharging, making the charge meter inaccurate until it's cycled off the charger. With the stock charger I can hopefully operate both at 100% duty cycle, despite its rating for 700mA. Sorry for the disturbance; I should've taken everyone's word for it! Thanks for the informative discussion. [Edit 2 times, last edit by caseyd11 at Apr 9, 2014 1:09:04 PM] |
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