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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Community
Forum: Chat Room
Thread: Can I ask a question? What the heck is going on with the points award system? |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 59
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
At first I thought it was just me but then looked into it and talked with others and we all see the same thing..
----------------------------------------Points awarded bouncing up and down like a yo-yo.. One day 8 WCG points per hour of work per thread and the next day 40.. Just insane so tell me if any of you see the same and if so does anyone have any answers?  Thanks...  |
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OldChap
Veteran Cruncher UK Joined: Jun 5, 2009 Post Count: 978 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Ha, MM you noticed too huh?
----------------------------------------You might find that info is sparse on this but I brought this one up recently too: https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,36514 and got the impression that this is known about for ages but little or nothing has really been forthcoming about a prospective fix. I am tempted to suggest that the old system be brought back until this newer one is working properly but for all I know we could be just a short time from a working system rather than this clutz that is more akin to tossing a coin than a system. Yeah yeah I know ....we do this for the science..... but this is taking all the fun out of it, for me anyway, so it makes me wonder how the more mercenary types are feeling right now. I suspect that in the greater scheme of things this is not considered important by the project staff but actually, when you consider how much traffic is here on these forums that is related in some way to points I would beg to differ. /rant So, no answers for you my friend, nor the rest of us either. EDIT: It's not the end of the world just yet I suppose... Runtime still seems to work   [Edit 1 times, last edit by OldChap at Mar 25, 2014 6:54:45 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hi, MM
Yep, I've seen it. However, I don't look at the task level, just too many going through... I have and can see this on a machine level. I monitor the Average PPR on the machines out of interest. Of late I've seen it fluctuate from as little as 457 per result up to and just over 1200 pr. I have some data if required... Very strange goings on... I have seen some comments on this about the type of work units MCM1 is putting out at the moment. This would explain at least some of the variance but not all. It would be good to have some input from one of the thechy guys as to the cause and if there was going to be any level of satbility in the near future... I guess I'm not the only one either... |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
Ha, MM you noticed too huh? You might find that info is sparse on this but I brought this one up recently too: https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,36514 and got the impression that this is known about for ages but little or nothing has really been forthcoming about a prospective fix. I am tempted to suggest that the old system be brought back until this newer one is working properly but for all I know we could be just a short time from a working system rather than this clutz that is more akin to tossing a coin than a system. Yeah yeah I know ....we do this for the science..... but this is taking all the fun out of it, for me anyway, so it makes me wonder how the more mercenary types are feeling right now. I suspect that in the greater scheme of things this is not considered important by the project staff but actually, when you consider how much traffic is here on these forums that is related in some way to points I would beg to differ. /rant So, no answers for you my friend, nor the rest of us either. The bottom line is that it is important. There is the totally valueless but still there little competitions that go on between teams and individguals (sp? ) The math of this is that "points awarded must bear some relevance to work done" and the point awards must be consistant across all projects otherwise you have people picking and choosing which projects to run based strictly on awarded points and thats no good for anyone. Now we won't even get into how GPU totally skewed the overall standings or the effect that having a "pay for play" team has had on the overall standings as the case can be made that those two factors have also brought a whole ton of extra work being done. This however just further serves to mess up what should be a very easy part of the whole. I've seen one machine go up and down in average over 35,000PPD in a 3 day period.. Just nuts IMHO and why I posted on this.. |
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Movieman
----------------------------------------Whilst the Points system may have been valueless previously, aside from friendly competition between individual and teams, with the advent of Ripple the points system has assumed more significance. Points=XRPs=$$$. A robust, and defensible, points system is essential else the confidence of 20,000+ Ripple members may be shaken. twilyth makes the point in this post that it could ultimately lead to litigation. A nightmare scenario, |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
Movieman Whilst the Points system may have been valueless previously, aside from friendly competition between individual and teams, with the advent of Ripple the points system has assumed more significance. Points=XRPs=$$$. A robust, and defensible, points system is essential else the confidence of 20,000+ Ripple members may be shaken. twilyth makes the point in this post that it could ultimately lead to litigation. A nightmare scenario, Made me smile.. Point1) When Ripple joined WCG it was with no guarantees implied or expressed in any way legally binding. 2) I know twilyth and as a lawyer he thinks as a lawyer..  3) Althogh he and I agree the points system should be one thats "fair and stable" to me it's all about what is "Right and fair to all" and has nothing to do with legalities. At least to me when WCG is no longer a "friendly" atmosphere then it's time to go. I've been running this app 24/7 365 since August 2006 on multiple top machines because I saw WCG as a good worthwhile project with good people involved. I still feel that way. Yes, some glitches along the way but that is to be expected in any area of life..Still laughing at the "legal issues" thought..LOL  [Edit 1 times, last edit by Movieman at Mar 25, 2014 8:48:58 PM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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MM: I hope you're correct about point #1. But my point was that agreements can be implied from behavior - it's an entire area of contract law in fact - and that's even before you get into issues like equitable estoppel . So if it's true that there was no explicit agreement between WCG and RL, that's great, but it doesn't necessarily mean that no one can ever have a cause of action against WCG.
----------------------------------------Anyway, Johnnie is right to point out the role of points for people on the Ripple team. Personally, I haven't done anything differently since joining them - in fact I've shut at least one machine down. But a lot of people have. In some cases you even have people renting time from Amazon, Slicify or whomever. Getting proper credit means the difference between their being able to continue contributing or not. Of course we can get into the issue of whether RL is a boon or curse for WCG, but as long as they are here, things like points calculations that have a direct bearing on their participation shouldn't be ignored.   |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I am still struggling to get my head around the points scheme so I will take my time seeing how the whole system works.
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7846 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I posted in the other thread referenced by Old Chap about the points. I have found the the MCM1 points to be fairly stable and the FAAH autodock points stable. The biggest yo -yo effect has been in the VINA WU's. Like MM says - all over the map. I wonder if the particular types of dockings change significantly enough in different batches to affect the points or if the way the points are calculated is just broken.
---------------------------------------- Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
The one thing that caused me to post was when I went to my WCG page and started to do some math seeing the granted points on just a few FAAH WU.. On my dual E5-2670 V2 machine OC'd slightly to 3047MHz that is 20 cores and 40 threads I "should" average app 140,000-150,000WCG PPD. I'd seen my average on a 3 day timeframe climb like a rocket. The math showed me being granted credit at a rate of 285,000 WCG PPD on those FAAH WU..Now that is just nuts and then the average fell like a rock tossed into a pond..Again no logic at all.
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