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Former Member
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64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

I've only recently returned to WCG, so I may be missing something simple -- if so, please excuse the stupid post.

As I look at the system requirements for the various WCG apps, I see two obvious things about the one for the Clean Energy Project: (1) the quoted memory requirement is larger by far than any other, and (2) this is the only app that doesn't have a 64-bit version. Seems to me that if the developers were serious about getting results faster, a 64-bit version of this app would let a lot of us with extra memory (I have 16GB) run more instances simultaneously.

Just saying ...
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Falconet
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

No idea if CEP2 actually has a 64 bit app but if you have a 64 bit Windows or Linux OS then you can run as many tasks as your computer can run since 32 bit CEP2 runs in 64bit OS.

Beware that CEP2's checkpoints are far apart(maybe even hours) so it's best not to run it if you restart your computer often, Also, the I/O and memory requirements may slow down your computer if running to many tasks at once.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Falconet at Aug 1, 2013 11:12:05 AM]
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Former Member
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

I've only recently returned to WCG, so I may be missing something simple -- if so, please excuse the stupid post.

As I look at the system requirements for the various WCG apps, I see two obvious things about the one for the Clean Energy Project: (1) the quoted memory requirement is larger by far than any other, and (2) this is the only app that doesn't have a 64-bit version. Seems to me that if the developers were serious about getting results faster, a 64-bit version of this app would let a lot of us with extra memory (I have 16GB) run more instances simultaneously.

Just saying ...

Missed it, big time wink . You may want to read up on past posts v.v. 32 versus 64 bits, for CEP2 too!.. the overall gain is small [4-8%] and can turn out even negative shock, yes ! Why 64bit exist for a substantial part is systems that can´t do 32 bit apps.

Whilst, it's a waste discussing CEP2 in it's current incarnation as a new version is in development, using a faster/advanced Q-Chem incarnation, that will also bring much bigger models to the grid... prep for 4 to 8GB. No, this is not unique for the grid... QMC [Quantum Monte Carlo] has near 5GB models running. If you don't have the hardware for the big ones, don't tick the opt-in box. Running one of those will be a challenge, running them on multiple cores... try not to use the system for anything else requiring display feedback. If that comes in 64 bits... we'll learn when the alpha testing is ready and beta is started on the grid.
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Jim1348
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

Whilst, it's a waste discussing CEP2 in it's current incarnation as a new version is in development, using a faster/advanced Q-Chem incarnation, that will also bring much bigger models to the grid... prep for 4 to 8GB.

Very interesting. I assume that is the working memory requirement. What about disk storage? My ramdisk needs to know, preferably sooner rather than later.

For that matter, will the writes be at such a high rate? (If not, I could get rid of the ramdisk.)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Jim1348 at Aug 1, 2013 1:09:57 PM]
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

Nothing new I posted, but like to add, before the tilt function kicks in faster than hyperwarp, these big models are a subset of what is going to run on CEP2 v2, so to speak. The standard model sizes remain and [refrain from expressing any confidence at all it will be], another opt-in button in the project selection section. Since apps test RAM before sending, not probable they'll be going to be release to fringe device, who've set big VMs. The IO will be...fill in the blanks... and since there's only 16 checkpoints ** when the intermediate result is smallest, not expecting much more writing in-between... something to profile when we get to Beta test them.

Side note, the version will then get the major of 7.xx where we are now on 6.40, where the 6 is referring to the BOINC API used for the wrapper build. 7.xx thus fully suited for BOINC v7 [held me stethoscope with amplifier to the binaries, but not a sound of when :P]

edit: ** That was an poor assumption. Of course we [me] does not know if the whole checkpointing thing is going to be different [within the range of possibles naturally]. Something else we learn when BETA is there, that is, if we get full models to BETA and not anything sliced down to speed testing up.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Aug 1, 2013 1:42:43 PM]
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Jim1348
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

Good enough. I can probably do one machine for each, whether they are automatically selected or not.
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

I've only recently returned to WCG, so I may be missing something simple -- if so, please excuse the stupid post.

As I look at the system requirements for the various WCG apps, I see two obvious things about the one for the Clean Energy Project: (1) the quoted memory requirement is larger by far than any other, and (2) this is the only app that doesn't have a 64-bit version. Seems to me that if the developers were serious about getting results faster, a 64-bit version of this app would let a lot of us with extra memory (I have 16GB) run more instances simultaneously.

Just saying ...

Missed it, big time wink . You may want to read up on past posts v.v. 32 versus 64 bits, for CEP2 too!.. the overall gain is small [4-8%] and can turn out even negative shock, yes ! Why 64bit exist for a substantial part is systems that can´t do 32 bit apps.



My point is that 64-bit apps can access more than the first 4GB of memory. Assuming the quoted memory requirement (yes, I know it's worst case), running more than two or three instances will cause any more to rely heavily on a Windows swapfile. Having a 64-bit version of the app would allow additional instances to run primarily in memory, with minimal paging. You'd have to work very hard to convince me that using addtional main memory is slower than disk access.
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

No intend to convince you at all, let alone work hard on that, nada, since obviously you could not be bothered on visiting the past posts, and some are authoritative.
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Yarensc
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since each work unit runs its own process it doesn't matter how many 1GB 32 bit apps your running as long as your system has enough RAM
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Re: 64-bit version of Clean Energy Project app?

Right on the button. As I noted before, it's a waste of time discussing the present version. The v2 of CEP2 which will be having those 4-8GB models pass by might require the update to 64 bit, could even be 64 bit only... we'll see. Each will run in it's own isolated memory block, which is why if one task fails, it 99.99% of the times does not tare down the rest, but then if the core client [boinc.exe] goes gang-ho, all goes.
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