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Jeff_Wright
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angry Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

Hi all, I haven't been long at this but I sent in my WUs only 1 hour after they were due, almost a whole days worth and I get "Too Late" status!!! No credit and it has really ticked me off, to put it politely. What is the deal, anyone know? I never had this happen with any other project and I am really pondering on never running WCG again as I don't like wasting my CPU time on something I won't even get credit for. I know I should abort them if they won't finish on time but I'm in Okinawa Japan and don't always have Internet access (retired US military). They need to eliminate this status as a possibility or they will lose more volunteers.
[Apr 8, 2013 5:21:03 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
CandymanWCG
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to WCG! The status that you mentioned is quite normal and it makes sense if you consider you could be the other wingman waiting on somebody for more than 10 days to return a result. If you don't have internet access all the time or if you don't like to keep your machine on 24/7, my suggestion would be to find a balance between your WU buffer (smaller would probably be better) and the intervals when you actually have internet connection. I would also suggest that you pick the projects with less computing time per WU and definitely steer clear of CEP2, especially if you don't crunch 24/7!

So those are my suggestions from my non-expert point of view. I hope this helps.

Cheers!
----------------------------------------
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world! - Albert Einstein



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Former Member
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

Hi Jeff,

A welcome from me too!

I agree with Candyman's analysis of your situation. I've never crunched anywhere other than WCG, so I don't know what other groups do. Perhaps it was not made quite clear that, in WCG, once the due date/time is passed the servers assume that your machine has dropped off the grid and so they send out another copy of the WU to another cruncher. These resends are sent out with a shorter lead-time, and most regular contributors have there machines set up to push these up the queue to run straight away. I could devise scenarios that would allow late WUs to receive credit, but they would all put extra load onto the servers and WCG appears to have chosen not to do that. That's just the way it is and we all have to live with that.

I have one machine in my fleet that a family member uses that is old, slow, and is not switched on very often. It runs only the shortest running WUs (HCC at the moment, but that's about to end) and it has a tiny cache (0.05 days). It still gets the odd too late, but at least it contributes.
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branjo
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

I have crunched few other projects, but WCG is the most generous of all. I don't know how it is if you send WU after due time (I returned all my work within it), but WCG is the only one awarding crunchers with (some) credits for Invalid result.

Cheers peace
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Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by branjo at Apr 8, 2013 5:05:03 PM]
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JoergH
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

I'd like to support Jeff ! Considering the time you get for a workunit on e.g. Seti@home, the period to send an answer is extremely short ! The grid must not forget, that it gets spare processor time ! Not everybody will let the computer run all day. Additionally some PCs are some years old. That is a terrible waste of energy, if you think about some million participants....
Unfortunately about 80% of the workunits on my and my friends computers are lost due to overtime !
So, PLEASE GIVE US MORE TIME TO DO THE CALCULATIONS !!
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Former Member
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

If 10 days is not enough time with a minimum buffer, which means only running tasks are on the host, no tasks ready to start [except the few minutes prior to finishing previous work], I don't know what. There is a -must- in getting work back in a reasonable time as else the storage of unarchived results grows out of hand which makes the whole system go slow for everyone.

At the present some core development is underway to allow sizing assignments based on device power, and possibly also based on hours per day average, but that is a medium term future implementation. A possible effect of that is, that results on average will return faster, meaning if your device is on only 3-4 hours a day, I'd still be able to return that result within a few day, well within the current general deadline of 10 days [non-repair].

Of course, if a computer is on only few hours a day, a setting of "Do work after idle for xx minutes" is pointless. In effect no progress will then be made other than the small intervals that a user takes a break from operating the computer. In that situation a Run Always is recommended... most don't ever notice BOINC is on and if they do, they can specify the specific programs when requiring BOINC to pause.
[Jun 6, 2013 2:32:21 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JoergH
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

Well Rob, SETI gives me two month for a work unit, and I always finish it ! I guess, they have even more data to process. I use the "run always" option, but my computer does not run every day and not much more than about an hour or even less. As I have to spend lots of time in front of a PC at work, I prefer doing different things in the afternoon. The Grid gets spare time, that was the intention of the program. I don't let the PC run, just to complete work units. A work unit takes about 10 hours on my PC and 10 hours in 10 days is quite a lot !
[Jun 10, 2013 10:28:27 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

.....two MONTHS for a WU at SETI! They must have altered a lot since I was there, wow! cool
[Jun 11, 2013 5:03:29 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

I'd like to support Jeff ! Considering the time you get for a workunit on e.g. Seti@home, the period to send an answer is extremely short ! The grid must not forget, that it gets spare processor time ! Not everybody will let the computer run all day. Additionally some PCs are some years old. That is a terrible waste of energy, if you think about some million participants....
Unfortunately about 80% of the workunits on my and my friends computers are lost due to overtime !
So, PLEASE GIVE US MORE TIME TO DO THE CALCULATIONS !!
Pleas DO NOT give more time to do calculations! I know I would be extremely peed off if I had to wait two months for a wingman. If you cannot return a WU in less than two weeks you should consider only those projects that do a single replication. Penalising those who return a WU in a matter of days and then waiting two month for it to be validated is detrimental.
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Former Member
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Re: Receiving WU Status of "Too Late"

Well Rob, SETI gives me two month for a work unit, and I always finish it ! I guess, they have even more data to process. I use the "run always" option, but my computer does not run every day and not much more than about an hour or even less. As I have to spend lots of time in front of a PC at work, I prefer doing different things in the afternoon. The Grid gets spare time, that was the intention of the program. I don't let the PC run, just to complete work units. A work unit takes about 10 hours on my PC and 10 hours in 10 days is quite a lot !

Great for SETI they can afford that [They can't is my observation for proper operation, given their weekly multi-day outages]. Over here at WCG the results are part of inter-related batches, experiments, of life-science... if one is missing, the data can't be archived, with the resultant performance impact. The Result Status page bares witness. WCG can only allow a few days of production to remain on-line.

As I explained, there's work ongoing for dynamic sizing according to various device criteria. As you put it, "The Grid get's spare time" and that is the intend. It is though that if the [default] settings are that spare cycles are not allowed to be used during user input, which varies from 0-100% on usually 1 CPU thread, the other non-user utilized threads also waste the spare time, not used by BOINC. The preference of "While computer is in use", is then recommended to be ticked, and if your computer is e.g. a quad core processor, "On multiprocessor systems, use at most 75%", a percent so that 1 thread remains at your disposal, but the others are having 100% of the spare cycles donated to grid computing. Whatever settings that optimize the crunching without you being obstructed.

Maybe, long on many a wish-list has been, a % of processor while in use and when idle, just as there is one since long for memory use by BOINC. Never heard the argument why that could not be implemented by Berkeley. On the said quad, that would mean in the example 100% use when idle and 75% when in use. Optimized utilization according users wishes. With LAIM [Leave application in memory while suspended], that in effect never unloads the task, so it can resume whenever that 25% is not used by member, without a second of computing loss.
[Jun 11, 2013 7:11:24 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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