Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 9
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 1193 times and has 8 replies Next Thread
Rickjb
Veteran Cruncher
Australia
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Post Count: 666
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs questions [Some resolved]

Late in 2012, I upgraded one of my machines from BOINC 6.2.19 to 7.0.42, and found that the Network Usage options have an extra field: "Minimum work buffer" and "Max additional work buffer", versus just "Additional work buffer" in the older clients.
The 7.0.42 installer set Max to my previous "Additional work buffer" value (1.35d) and Min to 0.
The new client would not download new work without manual "Update"s.
I now have Min = 1.0d and Max = 1.01d, still have to do manual "Update"s, and there still seems to be about 2d work in the cache.
Is "Max additional work buffer" additional to zero, ie just "Max work buffer", or is it additional to "Minimum work buffer"? The BOINC Wiki Local Prefs Page is unclear on the matter:

  • Minimum work buffer: This sets the minimum amount of work your BOINC is going to request.. It's the low water mark for BOINC, before it starts asking for work.
  • Max additional work buffer: This sets the additional days worth of work you want to have.

The reason for my upgrade was to avoid having to micromanage BOINC so that 2 and only 2 CEP2 WUs run concurrently. I'm still having to micromanage because I can't seem to get enough CEP2 WUs for them to rise up the queue so that their execution will be deferred automatically, since I keep grabbing new ones from near the bottom :(
[Edit]: This question & these problems resolved - See below. [/Edit]
----------------------------------------
[Edit 6 times, last edit by Rickjb at Jan 3, 2013 10:01:53 AM]
[Jan 1, 2013 10:55:49 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nanoprobe
Master Cruncher
Classified
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Post Count: 2998
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question

You have to have a value set in both settings in the newer version of boinc. FWIW I set the minimum to 0.10 and then set the max to the days of cache I want to keep.
You can control the amount of CEP2 tasks you want to run at the same time by placing an app_config file into the WCG project folder.
Copy and paste the text below into notepad. Rename it app_config.xml and place it into the WCG project folder. If you haven't done so already you'll need to set your OS to show hidden files and folders because the BOINC folder that contains the project folders is hidden by default. You'll need to shut down boinc and restart it for the changes to take effect.

<app_config>
<app>
<name>cep2</name>
<max_concurrent>2</max_concurrent>
</app>
</app_config>

You'll also have to change the amount of CEP2 tasks you can receive at one time in your preferences on the website. The default is 1. If you want to run 2 change it to 3 or higher.
----------------------------------------
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.


[Jan 1, 2013 12:50:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
branjo
Master Cruncher
Slovakia
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
Post Count: 1892
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question

Also try to set in Preferences, Network tab, Connect to network every day between 1:30 and 1:59 - this helped me in 7.0.3x versions (for both Win 7 64 and MAC OS X 64).

Cheers
----------------------------------------

Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

[Jan 1, 2013 3:46:59 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Rickjb
Veteran Cruncher
Australia
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Post Count: 666
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question (#1)

Thanks for your info and suggestions, nanoprobe and branjo.

BOINC 7.0.42 is now working very well for me, running 2 CEP2 WUs and maintaining the work cache quite well ...

I have determined that "Max additional work buffer" is in addition to "Minimum work buffer", not in addition to zero extra work.
In other words "Max additional work buffer" is the width of the window between the minimum and maximum levels of work. The client will start fetching work if it estimates that the level is below "Minimum work buffer", and will stop fetching when the level is above ("Minimum work buffer" + "Max additional work buffer").
I am currently running "Minimum work buffer" = 1.00 and "Max additional work buffer" = 0.10
I got the clue to this behaviour by temporarily setting <work_fetch_debug>1</work_fetch_debug> in my cc_config.xml .
Then, every 60 seconds the BOINC Manager Event Log (formerly the Messages tab) shows that the client is checking the cache level. Here is one of the lines it writes in the Log with the settings above:
> 3/01/2013 6:49:54 PM | | [work_fetch] target work buffer: 86400.00 + 8640.00 sec
This indicates that BOINC is adding my 0.1d "max additional" work to the 1d "minimum" as the test criterion.

Thanks to nanoprobe, I realised that I'd placed my app_config.xml in my main BOINC data directory instead of "main BOINC data directory"/projects/www.worldcommunitygrid.org . Now it's working like it should.

I also found that the limit imposed by <max_concurrent> overrides the run-order priority that WUs that are Waiting to run (WTR) have over ones that are Ready to start (RTS). (Members who micromanage the order of execution of WUs will know that BOINC runs any WUs that are WTR before any that are RTS, high priority panics excepted. Forcing a WU that is RTS to run for a short time, then suspending and resuming it, will leave it as WTR, and this is the main way that run order can be manipulated by the user).
So what does this finding about <max_concurrent> mean? This parameter limits the max no of WUs of a type to be run simultaneously, but it does not enforce a minimum. If 1 or 2 of my 2 CEP2 WUs finishes and the next RTS WU in the cache is not CEP2, and there are no WUs that are WTR, BOINC will run the next (non-CEP2) WU that is RTS, while I want the threads that were running CEP2 to hand over to fresh CEP2 WUs further down the queue. I can make this happen by setting some or all CEP2 WUs in the queue to WTR.
If I micromanage in this moderately easy way, I can ensure that 2 and only 2 CEP2 WUs are running at all times, without having a very large value for "Number of workunits per host for The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2?" in my device profile.

@branjo: I don't see how network activity times are relevant to this topic. My BOINC clients don't have to explicitly connect/disconnect from the Net because I have an ADSL landline connection that is "permanently" connected. However, when I'm away from home for more than 1-2 days, I set "Network usage allowed between 08:45 and 08:30 every day", plus Activity menu > "Network activity based on preferences", and power off the modem/router for 1 min at about 08:38 using a mains timer, to avoid running out of work due to a connection hangup. (which happened a couple of times before I set up this scheme).
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Rickjb at Jan 3, 2013 10:22:03 AM]
[Jan 3, 2013 9:38:50 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Rickjb
Veteran Cruncher
Australia
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Post Count: 666
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question #2

Next question:
When does app_info.xml get read?

Only on startup of BOINC, or do either or both Advanced menu "Read config file" and "Read local prefs file" functions achieve it?

---
Should I/we continue this thread as "questions about the current latest BOINC beta version (X.Y.ZZ)" ? Best if started by a person in a group who have permission to edit each-other's posts - CAs or WCG staff - so the version number of the future current BOINC beta can be updated. Sticky?

Also, what about a BOINC wish-list thread, also possibly sticky? Perhaps belongs in the Suggestions/Feedback section.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Rickjb at Jan 3, 2013 10:20:43 AM]
[Jan 3, 2013 9:56:43 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
branjo
Master Cruncher
Slovakia
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
Post Count: 1892
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question (#1)

...

@branjo: I don't see how network activity times are relevant to this topic. My BOINC clients don't have to explicitly connect/disconnect from the Net because I have an ADSL landline connection that is "permanently" connected. However, when I'm away from home for more than 1-2 days, I set "Network usage allowed between 08:45 and 08:30 every day", plus Activity menu > "Network activity based on preferences", and power off the modem/router for 1 min at about 08:38 using a mains timer, to avoid running out of work due to a connection hangup. (which happened a couple of times before I set up this scheme).


You wrote that BOINC Manager "would not download new work without manual "Update"s." The changes in Network Tab I have posted above have solved this problem for me smile

Next question:
When does app_info.xml get read?

Only on startup of BOINC, or do either or both Advanced menu "Read config file" and "Read local prefs file" functions achieve it?


In version 7.0.42 both app_info and app_config get read only on BM startup. As far as I remember, SekeRob have posted that developers are working on the option you mentioned via "Read config file".

Cheers

Edit to add: Thanks for thorough feedback applause
----------------------------------------

Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

----------------------------------------
[Edit 3 times, last edit by branjo at Jan 3, 2013 10:51:51 AM]
[Jan 3, 2013 10:44:03 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nanoprobe
Master Cruncher
Classified
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Post Count: 2998
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question (#1)

An app_info file will not work with boinc version 7.0.42. 7.0.42 is for app_config only. I highly suggest that if you have both files in the WCG project folder you remove the app_info file. I don't think having both in there would work because 7.0.42 will not run on an anonymous platform which is what using an app_info file causes the client to do.
----------------------------------------
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.


[Jan 3, 2013 1:06:29 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
branjo
Master Cruncher
Slovakia
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
Post Count: 1892
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question (#1)

An app_info file will not work with boinc version 7.0.42. 7.0.42 is for app_config only. I highly suggest that if you have both files in the WCG project folder you remove the app_info file. I don't think having both in there would work because 7.0.42 will not run on an anonymous platform which is what using an app_info file causes the client to do.


I am sorry for misinformation liar . I have forgotten that I have used app_info with 7.0.36 and after upgrade to 7.0.42 I have completely replaced it with app_config.

Cheers smile
----------------------------------------

Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

----------------------------------------
[Edit 3 times, last edit by branjo at Jan 3, 2013 7:34:36 PM]
[Jan 3, 2013 7:02:40 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC 7.0.42 Local Prefs question (#1)

Hello Rickjb

So what does this finding about <max_concurrent> mean? This parameter limits the max no of WUs of a type to be run simultaneously, but it does not enforce a minimum. If 1 or 2 of my 2 CEP2 WUs finishes and the next RTS WU in the cache is not CEP2, and there are no WUs that are WTR, BOINC will run the next (non-CEP2) WU that is RTS, while I want the threads that were running CEP2 to hand over to fresh CEP2 WUs further down the queue. I can make this happen by setting some or all CEP2 WUs in the queue to WTR.
My understanding is that BOINC_7.0.42 counts and reserves GPU-threads, if any, first. What remains is a 'pool for CPU-WUs'. If you are able to run 2 CEP2-CPU-WUs concurrently, you should be able to continue running 2 CEP2-CPU-WUs until CEP2-CPU-WUs in your cache is exhausted. I don't understand why you need to do anything else to ensure 2 CEP2-CPU-WUs are running concurrently using a setting of max_concurrent for CEP2-CPU-WU of 2.

As for the idea of a 'minimum concurrent', if this feature ends up as critical, I think that another factor needs to be introduced: priority. This priority would come in case the sum of threads do not happen to match the total threads available. All shaken together, I think therefore that the app_config should evolve to a point-and-click UI with the complexity of the logic pre_worked-out and hidden from users.
;
; andzgridPost#783
;
[Jan 3, 2013 10:04:54 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread