Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 12
Posts: 12   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 2518 times and has 11 replies Next Thread
KWSN - A Shrubbery
Master Cruncher
Joined: Jan 8, 2006
Post Count: 1585
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Science load balancing

This has been discussed in the past, but I was hoping to see if there had been any progress made on being able to prioritize projects.

Currently, a user must either opt in or opt out of any given science. I would love to be able to select five(ish) projects and have them crunch equal numbers of hours. As it is, whenever I opt in to HPF, it dominates my runtime taking easily a third of my entire processing power with five or six sciences selected. The only fix to this is to deselect HPF until my time comes up on the other projects I care about. This micromanaging, of course, is not necessary but is the only way to distribute my contribution equally to all of the projects that matter personally.

What would be ideal is a way to set percentages of total runtime individually for each science within WCG. Similarly, there are sciences I would also select as back ups when work runs out of the desired science if that wish list item were ever implemented.

Any news on progress or feasibility?
----------------------------------------

Distributed computing volunteer since September 27, 2000
[Oct 29, 2012 3:38:18 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

Hello KWSN - A Shrubbery,
I have not heard anything so I will guess that nothing has been done. The reason seems obvious - BOINC is designed to run projects rather than sub-projects so WCG would have to do the design and coding. This means that the changed interface would have to attract more new members than any other change using equivalent resources. For a long time we have been working on GPU code and new projects. I suspect that either of these two measures is expected to bring a higher return on resource investment.

Lawrence
[Oct 29, 2012 8:25:08 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Mysteron347
Senior Cruncher
Australia
Joined: Apr 28, 2007
Post Count: 179
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

There's actually no point to the project-selection facility beyond the individual's badge-collection. It has no effect on the project mix whatever - not even in the slightest, despite stentorian denials from some quarters.

The work mixture is controlled by WCG's load-balancing goal which I'm happy to accept is based on technical issues.

Take a simple situation where there are two sciences, A and B available. The controlling authority generates work 50-50. All is well.

Now let's allow the providers of the processing capacity the facility to choose which science they crunch.

10% chooses A
20% chooses B
70% make no choice.

The controlling authority can STILL generate work on a 50-50 basis AND comply with the choices made. The individuals' choices are irrelevant. The only effect is that if for whatever reason either well runs dry, processing power dedicated to that particular stream will idle.

WCG is the same - just more sciences and the call for increasingly-complex (but totally ineffectual) work-selection facilities.

The only way in which the individual's choices can be made effective is to have the "technically balanced" work assigned to the 70% in my example; that is 35%A+10%A=45%A and 35%B+20%B=55%B.

And you instantly have an imbalance that the "technical balancing" act is designed to overcome.
[Oct 31, 2012 3:42:25 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
mikey
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: May 10, 2009
Post Count: 824
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

There's actually no point to the project-selection facility beyond the individual's badge-collection. It has no effect on the project mix whatever - not even in the slightest, despite stentorian denials from some quarters.

The work mixture is controlled by WCG's load-balancing goal which I'm happy to accept is based on technical issues.


I disagree but understand your point. The reason I disagree is that I already have all of the active badges at the 2 year level now, so any further crunching is for my own reasons, such as my aunt that did of cancer, or my long dead niece that died of childhood cancer, or the kids dieing of malaria, or whatever other reasons each cruncher has. I would like to say put 50% of my crunching on the hcc project here, with another 10% going to 5 other projects. Currently the only way to do that is manually, which is a disincentive to crunch here, IMHO. I must manually put resources towards a project then switch them to attempt to maintain my choices, or just crunch elsewhere where the Boinc software has those options BUILT IN! The difference is that WCG has several 'projects' under one umbrella instead of one focused 'project'. The Boinc software lets you assign a percentage of your crunching time to each 'project', but since WCG has several 'projects' under one umbrella it is an all or nothing thing. Don't get me wrong...I LIKE the idea of WCG, a sort of one place fits all place, it just needs some tweaking to make it better for me the cruncher. I am NOT saying EVERYONE needs, or even wants, all those options, but SOME of us do and it would make it better for us. I CAN manipulate SOME of those thru the different default, home, work and school settings, but further tweaking would be more helpful to me as I have multiple machines crunching, many more than the 4 options.
----------------------------------------


[Oct 31, 2012 2:43:55 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KWSN - A Shrubbery
Master Cruncher
Joined: Jan 8, 2006
Post Count: 1585
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

Mysterion, you are absolutely right. The overall work will not change no matter who or how many people select various projects. However, Mikey understood my point where you apparently missed the intention of the post.
----------------------------------------

Distributed computing volunteer since September 27, 2000
[Nov 1, 2012 5:21:38 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
branjo
Master Cruncher
Slovakia
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
Post Count: 1892
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

If it will matter sometime in the future, count my vote for adding balancing into sub-project loads as explained by KWNS - A Shrubbery and mikey159b

peace
----------------------------------------

Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

[Nov 1, 2012 8:35:20 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

Why is HPF2 swamping... it's because the many exclusive crunchers on the other sciences leave the remainder of the "fair" share in the pool, so anyone who includes HPF2 in a multi selection gets a ratio of what's left in the pool... in the weekend it's worse, when all the office machines are off who do the bulk from Monday to Friday. **

Solution: see knreed post(s), explaining why it is. Think it will require a vary major rewrite of the server feeder/scheduler system [that was mentioned too]. Not in our lifetime, but at least a week or 2 ago saw a post in the public that the techs were redesigning the device profile page and I'm sure all the past suggestions are being considered, where possible, so no point I see ATM to rehash until we get to see the product of their labors.

One time I proposed that each WCG-science got it's own project link. This way you'd be able to set weights, but then you'd also have to juggle device profiles ... a worse solution me thinketh. The side advantage of that [fools] approach would be to also get a science app level DCF.

Loose thoughts.

edit: ** to add, my multi WCG science client hardly gets FAAH and HFCC... it's because the "fair" share is gobbled up by the exclusive crunchers I suppose. So be it... if I want to elevate the contributions for those, I'll set up an Autodock profile.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 1, 2012 9:03:53 PM]
[Nov 1, 2012 9:00:52 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
RetiredTech
Advanced Cruncher
Canada
Joined: Feb 2, 2012
Post Count: 91
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

This thread seems like a good target for my concern. How about the priority of processing of Work Units for Validation? Seems like, since the introduction of GPU for HFC - glorifying Points and the number of Work Unit - the validation of high run time Work Units for sciences like Human Proteome is lagging.
[Nov 11, 2012 12:10:42 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KWSN - A Shrubbery
Master Cruncher
Joined: Jan 8, 2006
Post Count: 1585
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

HPF has always been the slowest one to validate. This has to do with the high number of copies sent out. Natural variability will assure that there will be sufficient late(er) results to delay validation.
----------------------------------------

Distributed computing volunteer since September 27, 2000
[Nov 11, 2012 1:57:25 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Science load balancing

This thread seems like a good target for my concern. How about the priority of processing of Work Units for Validation? Seems like, since the introduction of GPU for HFC - glorifying Points and the number of Work Unit - the validation of high run time Work Units for sciences like Human Proteome is lagging.

Interpretation: You propose there to be a feedback system from server to client to tell client "Hey your wingman is in, speed your copy up, now!".

There's a myriad of things that would have to be recoded in the client [of which there are many versions around] and server, all for the glorification of getting your points earlier, to include that the scheduler has to be accessed at least twice as often for a costly lookup [scheduler load] to see who's got the wingman copy and then send a modified deadline date to the client [it's one of the key parms the client prioritizes tasks on, deadline threat]. Opinion: Never to happen. The deadlines are the deadlines, so all volunteer devices can participate, at their own pace, 24/7 or 2/7.
[Nov 11, 2012 8:37:28 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 12   Pages: 2   [ 1 2 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread