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Former Member
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Grid vs Super Computer?

Hi all! I have a few questions that I have been thinking about.

How big is the difference using the grid vs using a super computer for calculations? How much computing power does the grid have compared top500.org super computers?

The projects we do on WCG would it be possible to run them on a super computer? Or are the calculations of a type that make them better suited to do on the grid than on a super computer.

I'm also wondering if some of these projects would be finished faster if they had access to some super computers (edit: if it was run on a super computer instead of the grid). Then there is only the question about money.

If I understand correctly the projects still need quite big storage arrays but I guess thats cheaper than a super computer.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 7, 2012 2:38:59 PM]
[Feb 7, 2012 2:32:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

I can not answer all of your questions but do know that the scale presently for "super computers " is big albeit growing smaller with each iteration. (See "Knights Corner" from Intel). Generally speaking most supercomputers have all of their time allocated to various forms of scientific research or simulations. The faster they make them , the harder the problems the scientists throw at them. Supercomputers need large amounts of electricity, complex wiring schemes, large communication pipes and complex storage requirements.

The grid may not be as efficient as a supercomputer, but does make use of excess capacity which is otherwise idle or wasted. The marginal cost of electricity when going from idle to full throttle is not great although if you overclock with a number of systems will mount up.

Perhaps someone else will be able to quantify the differences.

Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
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Col323
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

Let's look at just one project on WCG, the Help Fight Childhood Cancer project. At project launch in March 2009, project scientists said it would take them 100 years to do the computations on the computers available to them. (Also posted on their main page.) They estimated it would take us 2 years. In fact, it only took about 1 year and 3 months! This allowed them to identify some new targets and toss them our way, nearly tripling the scope of the project. So in the course of a few years, we've done way more than their resources could do in 100 years. Granted, if they had a shiny supercomputer hiding in the closet, they could pound out results too. They don't, so that's where we come in.
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Former Member
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

Ok thanks for the info.
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mikey
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

Hi all! I have a few questions that I have been thinking about.

How big is the difference using the grid vs using a super computer for calculations? How much computing power does the grid have compared top500.org super computers?


The way Boinc is setup is to run one workunit on each cpu, not one workunit on many cpu's. A Super Computer from the top500.org list is setup to run a single problem on many cpu's all at once bringing in effect a sledge hammer or a 10 ton hammer to the problem. For WCG, or any other Boinc Project, to run on a Super Computer would necessitate a whole rewrite of the software and would ONLY then work on Super Computers. Time on a Super Computer is EXTREMELY expensive and not easily obtained. In many cases people have to submit their problems several times before it is approved and even then it may not run for several months down the road. It is kind of like time on a top notch telescope, limited and very expensive! Also alot of the newer Super Computers are using gpu's to bump up their numbers, so while they may have 3,000 processors, 2,500 of those may be on gpu's as opposed to straight cpu's. My AMD 5770 gpu's has 800 'shaders' each, or as Super Computers call them 'processors', I have 6 of those running here in my pc's now! In short you and I supply FREE resources and the program is already written to take advantage of our hardware.
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

I have found some info that is related to my original questions so I tough I should share them with you.

Research projects that benefit from grid technology are those that perform computations that require millions of computer processing units (CPUs) and that can be divided into smaller independent computations.
- http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/research/viewSubmitAProposal.do

Detailed information about the storage array for CEP:
http://cleanenergy.harvard.edu/index.php?ira=...debar&sidebar=science


Is the grid considered to be a Heterogeneous Multicomputer System? Or is that to use that term wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_computing
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Former Member
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

Latest Top 500 Super Computer round, where Linux rulez at > 85%. WCG still rates fairly well with, who would you believe, 448Teraflops per BOINCStats [around spot 150], but 881TFL [around spot 80] according to moi , as we are effectively still on credit old [though it says credit_new on the tin].

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-still-rules-supercomputing/

The list: http://top500.org/

Once upon a time we were in the top 10, sustained performance, but with expanding 'smartphone' computing, can't compete with Xeons. Still, not at all shabby. smile
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alged
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

In short you and I supply FREE resources and the program is already written to take advantage of our hardware.


and that allows scientific research for neglected diseases and scientists from countries with low budgets to pursue their works .
I suppose super computers are in hands of capitalistic or nationalist interests.
Is the China top one crunching for chinese people welfare?
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[Jul 15, 2015 9:50:10 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

Hi all! I have a few questions that I have been thinking about.

How big is the difference using the grid vs using a super computer for calculations? How much computing power does the grid have compared top500.org super computers?

The projects we do on WCG would it be possible to run them on a super computer? Or are the calculations of a type that make them better suited to do on the grid than on a super computer.

I'm also wondering if some of these projects would be finished faster if they had access to some super computers (edit: if it was run on a super computer instead of the grid). Then there is only the question about money.

If I understand correctly the projects still need quite big storage arrays but I guess thats cheaper than a super computer.

using GRID computing is CHEAP, right now it's FREE / donated...supercomputers COST money, even if u get the time on it as academic...
here in Croatia we have one several supercomputers...most of them r v 50% capacity or under...not many request 4 them! sad

putting BOINC on supercomputer, depends on OS...if it's (usually is) UNIX/Linux, than BOINC can allocate the core per WU...most probably it will do same thing on Windows based...but haven't tried it, maybe someone operating some SC can tell more?

projects will be done within a months...'cause these beasts have so much cores that's incredible! but SC costs money to maintain, so scientists don't get so much access to them...& a lot of paperology is written to have it allocated... wink

GRID is donated & as such is so much cheaper than SC... cool
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oldies:UDgrid.org & PS3 Life@home


non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
[Jul 16, 2015 10:18:15 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
alged
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Re: Grid vs Super Computer?

AGREED !!!
just look the last notice and video abt CEP2 achievement by WCG voluntary crunchers.
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