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mikey
Veteran Cruncher Joined: May 10, 2009 Post Count: 821 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Thanks Krakatuk for answering my question... that is exactly what I would expect: The same WU should give the same amount of points independent of the performance of the CPU that crunched it. CJSL BUT it is an AVERAGE of the points claimed by each pc, with the slower pc asking for more points and the faster pc asking for less. The faster pc generates more points in the long run because it finishes more units than the slower pc. This is of course negated when the quorum for the unit is one. ![]() ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Thanks to kateiacy's suggestion of sharing some of the WCGDaws data, here are some of mine. I've included a few cross-OS and cross-CPU comparisons for good measure.
Cross-OS: i7 2600 running 8 threads, Ubuntu 11.10 vs Windows 7 vs the WCG Dashboard global average. Ordered by PPH on Ubuntu. Ubuntu gives more PPH (points per hour) than Windows for all projects except HPF2, but the project ranking is almost the same on both OSes. Compared to the WCG global average, the largest difference in project ranking seems to be HCMD2, which ranks near the top globally but relatively low here. HPF2 is an outlier on Ubuntu, -34% PPH compared to CEP2. This could be an artifact of hyperthreading - either HPF2 takes a larger hit from HT, or more HPF2 tasks were running simultaneously than for the other projects. (The Ubuntu system had five times more tasks from HPF2 than from any other project, and four times more than the Windows system over the same period.) This illustrates one of the complicating issues, especially with hyperthreading: CEP2 gives one of the highest PPH in this case, but this would probably not remain true if I were to run CEP2 on all eight threads simultaneously. In general, performance for a hyperthreaded task depends not only on this task but also on the other task sharing the hardware core. Since there are 255 possible ways to combine 8 projects, I think I'll leave the job of looking for the optimal combination to someone else :) Cross-CPU: HT enabled, WCG on all threads (8 threads for the i7s, 4 threads for the i3) i7 920 and i3 540 gives almost exactly the same PPH, despite i3 540 being clocked higher (3.06 GHz vs. 2.66 HGz). Maybe i7 920 compensates with more cache (8 MB vs 4 MB), or there could be some other factor influencing the score. i7 2600 gives significantly more PPH than the other two. I guess it's the combination of a higher clock (3.4 GHz) and a higher IPC (instructions per clock). The project ranking is fairly stable across these systems. Conclusion? I'm not sure that I have one... Except that getting statistics that is both reliable and useful is hard, and it doesn't matter much for my choice of projects. But it's still interesting :) |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
HPF2 is an outlier, because it's the only one where quorum is not homogeneous, meaning that all results of Mac, Win and Lnx are mixed.
Did a little chart myself, and came to a deviation to mean of 4% up or down, HPF2 as surmised the greatest with -5.6% IIRC, the newest sciences the highest [and have determined why this is... knreed can call me privately]. On HPF2, my educated guess is, this is where the 9 to 5 devices congregate... many office devices, set / forget and running not exactly optimal condition benchmarks... pulling down the 15 quorum mean for grant. Gonna leave it at that as the whole topic of claim and grant and the massive inconsistencies across the BOINC universe irritates me to no end. The BOINC certificates handed out by some projects say it right.... xxx quadrillion computations contributed... down with points and credits (fox in the hen-house maybe :-) --//-- |
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Thanks to all for this very interesting discussion.
----------------------------------------If there is a conclusion to be made it would be: Choose one, multiple, or all project according to your personal objectives only, and that is in the end the most satisfying approach. You will get anyway enough points for your efforts. ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Hypernova at Dec 3, 2011 4:12:56 PM] |
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cjslman
Master Cruncher Mexico Joined: Nov 23, 2004 Post Count: 2082 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I agree with Hypernova. Even if you told me that project X gives me more points, I would still keep on crunching with the same method that I have always been using.
----------------------------------------Another interesting aspect is that it really doesn't matter what method is used (badge chasing or only cancer/ecology related projects or points chasing or whatever)... any method used is just goodness: all projects help solve a problem or issue that the human race currently suffers. So lets keep on crunching... masticando... mastication... kauen.... CJSL PS: I hope my novice translations of "crunch" don't mean anything offending ![]() |
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kateiacy
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 23, 2010 Post Count: 1027 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
waitingForTheMiracle -- very interesting plots, indeed! Somehow I missed this thread when you first posted them and am just catching up now. One thing I find very interesting is how different the sciences are with respect to points per hour under Ubuntu, compared to how similar they all are under Windows.
----------------------------------------I'm off to fire up the netbook on which I run WCGDaws and pull some comparative stats from my non-hyperthreading machines. OK, here's what I have. These are average points per hr on three different machines. The first column is for an AMD Phenom II X4, the second for an Intel Core 2 Duo, and the third for an AMD Fusion E-350 chip. All are running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS.
![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by kateiacy at Dec 24, 2011 3:10:52 AM] |
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KWSN - A Shrubbery
Master Cruncher Joined: Jan 8, 2006 Post Count: 1585 Status: Offline |
Not to derail this topic too far but WCG exists in a wider BOINC world. Many projects inflate their points to attract volunteers and WCG was low compared to most before this trend began.
----------------------------------------As I understand it the Admins are working on this issue so I'll wait to see how it is resolved. From personal experience, I can verify that the number of volunteers here is limited by the low granted points. Of the hundreds of members in my team, I contribute about 1/4 of all points/runtime. It's a real struggle to get people to crunch here when other projects reward better. Myself, I'm in it for the sciences. Apparently others are more concerned with (meaningless) points. ![]() Distributed computing volunteer since September 27, 2000 |
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
If you are a Boinc cruncher, and by that I mean that your unique objective is to climb the credits, RAC or whatever metric you use, then yes the projects are not important and only counts the payout, the reward.
----------------------------------------I have difficulties thinking that way simply because credits are not real money. I cannot do anything with them. Such a goal seems strange to me. In reality runtime and results seem more appropriate because they relate to more concrete things. First you crunch (and it costs real money) for something that cannot be just credits. You have a reason, like finding a cure for humanity, or discovering an extraterrestrial intelligence, or solving a major humanitarian problem (water, energy, food), a cosmological problem etc. That is your basic motivation, your real target. Then the psychological reward system is nice and fun to have and makes it fun to donate and spurs competition which can only improve the contribution amount. The other way round seems strange, but no problem, all crunchers watever their motivation are allways welcome. ![]() ![]() |
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sk..
Master Cruncher http://s17.rimg.info/ccb5d62bd3e856cc0d1df9b0ee2f7f6a.gif Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Post Count: 2324 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Hopefully in the near future, there will be more uniformity WRT credits across all the Boinc projects. Then people will be able to judge projects on their merit alone, and contribute accordingly. Can't see my contributions changing much.
----------------------------------------[Edit 1 times, last edit by skgiven at Dec 24, 2011 8:58:16 PM] |
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