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Former Member
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Can cores work together to reduce time?

Hello.
I have a i7 processor with 4 cores.
It runs 8 tasks simultaneously.

This is good, but not perfect.
I wish that it could do fewer tasks, but faster.

What does it take for cores to cooperate better?
Will newer versions of BOINC support that?
And when?

Having a lot of slow, unfinished tasks with deadline approaching, is annoying.
I travel a lot, and have to turn off the computer when I'm not home.

One task that completes in an hour is better than 8 tasks that complete in 8 hours. Makes life easier for crunchers.

Any reasons for and against this?
[Nov 21, 2011 10:04:14 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Falconet
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

BOINC already supports this.
It's the science apps that don't.
Sorry but multithreaded sciences still don't exist in WCG
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- AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W
- AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
- AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Falconet at Nov 21, 2011 10:32:22 PM]
[Nov 21, 2011 10:17:49 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

If you set in preferences
On multiprocessor systems, use at most 50.00 % of the processors
then 4 tasks will run faster. (but not quite twice as fast.)
Or if you want to go into computer Bios and disable Multithreading it
will have the same effect. Half as many tasks faster.
[Nov 21, 2011 10:21:06 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Falconet
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

If you set in preferences
On multiprocessor systems, use at most 50.00 % of the processors
then 4 tasks will run faster. (but not quite twice as fast.)
Or if you want to go into computer Bios and disable Multithreading it
will have the same effect. Half as many tasks faster.


Setting to 50% processors won't make tasks run faster.
It will cause fewer tasks to be run.
Going to bios to disable Hyperthreading(not multithreading) will cause the computer to run only 4 tasks although tasks individually will run a bit faster.But having HT enabled still has a much larger output than if disabled.
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- AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W
- AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
- AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
[Nov 21, 2011 10:26:20 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

try setting your boinc advance preference on multiprocessor use 87.50% 7 task run faster and more effictve at least they do on my i960 3.20
[Nov 21, 2011 10:47:00 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

Setting to 50% processors won't make tasks run faster.
Actually, it will. About 30% faster according to tests on i7 and Atom.
(Without hyperthreading each WCG thread gets a hardware core all to itself instead of sharing it with another thread, so individual tasks complete faster. But you don't need to disable HT for this to happen, letting half the HT threads run idle seems to have the same effect.)

One task that completes in an hour is better than 8 tasks that complete in 8 hours.
Sorry, that option is not available. What you can get is 4 tasks in 5-6 hours. It gives less points and results, but each batch completes faster.

Edit: Fixed broken link
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 21, 2011 11:40:48 PM]
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ryan222h
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

If each task is too slow for you, I would suggest running projects with faster run-times, like HCC.

Otherwise, you can turn off HT, which will run 4 tasks only instead of 8, but it will be faster per work unit.

An HCC task will complete in about 40 minutes on an overclocked i7-2600k or i5-2500k both without HT enabled.
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[Nov 21, 2011 11:48:14 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding here. I think to use 50% cores would actually fit the purpose of reducing the run time and the elapsed time.

I have an I7 on a laptop, and I run it at 50% (i.e., 4 cores), because of the very long time that takes to run WUs in a 100% mode. Points/hr rate comes out lower at 100%, the only good thing is that a single WU runs longer (see below re: DDDT2).

If you put on top the heating issues, it is very convenient to do like this, as it does not come out any benefit to me to use 8 threads at the same time, with a very similar result of doing 4 first and 4 later, in terms of time, but with more points, i.e., work done.

The above IMHO is valid unless you are a badge hunter AND there are not enough WUs (i.e., DDDT2).

If I were to use a no-heating concerned system, and if I did not care too much about points per hour, then I would consider 100% load. But again I am not fully sure of the benefit.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 21, 2011 11:52:12 PM]
[Nov 21, 2011 11:49:32 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

What does it take for cores to cooperate better? Will newer versions of BOINC support that? And when?

- Mannen med ljaaen [Nov 21, 2011 10:04:14 PM] post > (original post)
BOINC already supports this. It's the science apps that don't. Sorry but multithreaded sciences still don't exist in WCG.

- Falconet [Nov 21, 2011 10:17:49 PM] post > (response post)
The idea of using multiCores to cooperatively crunch for a single WU competes with the idea that WUs can be sized and coded to crunch in parallel across multiCores. That is, if, say 8 cores, are cooperatively run and took 1-hr to crunch a given WU, that WU can be re-sized so that 1-core would take 1-hr to crunch. The output is the same: 1hr-perCore-perDoneWu.

To code for cooperative cores (multiThreading) is difficult and does not scale as well with the number of cores. To code for parallel execution (multiProcessing) is a lot simpler, and scales well not only with the processor capabilities, but also with the number of cores. Put simply, multiProcessing beats multiThreading.

If each task is too slow for you, I would suggest running projects with faster run-times, like HCC.

- ryan222h [Nov 21, 2011 11:48:14 PM] post > (response post)
Exactly, and that is why HCC is the project that would give birth to the first GPU-aware app in WCG! Rather than look for ways to run 4 or 8 cores (for a task that used to take CPUcores*WUruntime) cooperatively, it is a lot better in many respects to size-down a WU and run them in the hundreds-of-cores of today's GPU -- all in parallel.
;
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Re: Can cores work together to reduce time?

I like the post by andzgrid. Just to make sure that everybody understands hyperthreading, assume that a project runs in 5-hours. Then 4 cores will run 4 work units in 5 hours (ignoring minor time losses due to contention). Running 2 such units on a hyperthreading core might complete both work units in 8 hours and 45 minutes rather than the 10 hours it would take to run the 2 work units sequentially. So this is greater throughput but each individual work unit tales longer. There is also some increased heat. In general it is a bad idea to disable hyperthreading. After all, the OS keeps running a lot of threads in addition to the work units. If you want individual work units to finish quickly, just use the BOINC 50% command to schedule 1 unit per core rather than 2.

Lawrence
[Nov 22, 2011 7:34:19 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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