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Former Member
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

Toy with (De)Activate "Write Through" if that can be done (using the white/red stick here).

--//--
[Mar 5, 2011 10:11:30 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

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[Edit 2 times, last edit by skgiven at Mar 5, 2011 11:35:48 AM]
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

Part of me just wants a workaround, but the rest of me wants to understand what is happening. If I have tasks in memory but suspended, and start up a CEP2 unit, what would make the other SUSPENDED tasks all exit? How would that have any relation to drive speed, or rather to thrashing the drive which of course does relate to drive speed? At least a memory issue would make sense [to me], but only if it involved memory corruption, or the tasks being forced out of memory, or flaky memory period.

Just to verify the obvious, I tried suspending everything then restarting the client, then running CEP2, then resuming the other tasks, and of course all was fine. The only difference I understood from the first scenario was that the tasks weren't in memory when CEP2 started. In neither case were they running -- unless the client isn't accurate when it says "task suspended".
??
I'll go dig up the drive stats to add to the knowledge pool.

P.s. I promise, LAIM is checked, I just verified it again!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Mar 5, 2011 2:43:35 PM]
[Mar 5, 2011 2:42:30 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

There was a post just moments ago by Ingleside, that if there is memory shortage, LAIM will not help either, and BOINC unloading suspended / waiting for memory tasks notwithstanding. Given tasks have a minimum RAM portion that never gets offloaded to VM (so I think to have seen time and again), then maybe that's a cause... the acute ditch.

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Rickjb
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

@Sekerob:
"Toy with (De)Activate "Write Through" if that can be done (using the white/red stick here)."
Tried that. Effect on system performance was immediately disastrous.
(I assume you mean, in Device Manager >> Disk drives >> [selected disc] > Policies tab > switch Off "Enable write caching on the disk", which defaults On. )
Don't understand re "white/red stick" ...

[B.S] sTrey's issue may be different to mine. (I did say the issues seemed similar, not necessarily the same). My issues happen to running tasks. his involve suspended tasks:
"If I have tasks in memory but suspended, and start up a CEP2 unit, what would make the other SUSPENDED tasks all exit?"
That sounds like the system is running out of physical memory and going into panic, or the system is trying to swap the suspended tasks onto the swap/pagefile to free some physical memory, while trying to load the CEP2 task from the disc system at the same time. Result: disc system has fibrillation heart attack.
In Windows Task Manager > Performance tab, what is your "Commit Charge" vs "Physical Memory - Total"?

Off my topic, but my understanding of what LAIM really does is a bit hazy, and I don't think it does what I want. I want it to cause suspended WUs to stay sleeping in the system's processes list, with their complete memory image in either physical memory or wholly or partially swapped/paged out onto the swap/page file as required. If swapped/paged out, they should not be brought back into physical memory until they are resumed. However, with LAIM set, Windows seems to either try to keep them entirely in physical memory or keeps trying to page them back into physical memory. Those things would happen either if the priority level of the WUs was set high enough to lock them in core (*nix `nice -1` command), or the BOINC client keeps waking them up to check for heartbeats. [/end ot]
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Rickjb at Mar 6, 2011 3:30:19 AM]
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

As noted in other thread yesterday, when there is complete memory cram, LAIM is ignored and paused/suspended tasks are ditched ad hoc. This is kind of an ''improvement'' as else BOINC would end up in complete stalemate. I've tested this yesterday on a duo by artificially limiting RAM permissions and indeed it's a full ditch with a [removed from memory] log entry, but the tasks just sit here in "waiting to run" instead of "waiting for memory" as it was before.

--//--

edit: The tasks when it was their turn again and the pairings did work to fit in the RAM, the HCMD2/HCC combo's ran to the end normally, and validated, where a C4CW/HCC pairing would not run in the 118MB limit I was experimenting with. The times from last checkpoint was lost, but that except for CEP2 is mostly quite limited.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Mar 6, 2011 10:37:25 AM]
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sk..
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

Would there be any benefit to the servers auto-capping CEP2 tasks for x86 systems, to prevent memory issues; most x86 system are likely to have trouble running more than 5 CEP2 tasks? 3.5GB is not much after you take away the operating systems usage.
[Mar 6, 2011 7:59:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

Dear skgiven,
you are right - it would be very nice to chose certain settings depending on the host hardware - there are good rules of thumb how a setup should look like. We have bounced around this idea with the IBM team but it unfortunately seems to be very hard to implement this in BOINC.
Best wishes
Your Harvard CEP team
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

Twice today I have suspended everything without exiting the client, let a CEP2 start, and where before I'd instantly see exit messages from the other tasks that had been in memory, they're now fine.

I haven't changed anything, but it seems to have changed behavior about the time the host got quicker CEP2 units.

Not sure why that would be the memory usage doesn't look much different. Task damager says that there was a lot of main memory left even when other units crashed, and even when only one unit was in memory when I started a CEP2. I can see the CEP2 unit hitting the page file quite a bit -- not wonderful but nowhere near filling it. and the pagefile is just as active when other tasks restart and continue to crunch.

Now if I could only afford a week's worth of time to switch to Windows 7 and reconfigure/restore/retweak the world on that host wink Will just keep watching what's happening.
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Re: Will CEP2 units eventually NOT Bogart the host when they start up?

I think this may (not pointing fingers yet) have been hosing my desktop but I'm not 100% sure. I was frequently (at least every other day) finding my computer had restarted itself, and event viewer was displaying the dreaded "the previous shutdown was unexpected" error (event ID 6008). Ran a bunch of diagnostics (memory, CPU, disk, etc) all which came up fine. After the last "unexpected restart", I was reading the forums and noticed this thread. The timing of the last shutdown corresponded to the startup of a CEP2 task (I do also have the limit of 1 CEP2 task/host). I temporarily removed CEP2 from my project list and it hasn't happened since. I'm going to experiment a bit more by flipping it back on over some weekend and seeing what happens.

Intel Q6600 (stock speed), 8GB RAM, Vista Home Premium x64, BOINC 6.10.58

Believe my issue was a faulty power supply. I swapped the power supply and resumed CEP2, no issues.
[Mar 7, 2011 9:55:29 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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