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Former Member
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i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

I've been trying to reduce my CPU's temperature and came across this possibility of disabling HT in my new i7 950 processor.

According to this analysis it shoulnd't make much of a difference performance-wise:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/ci7-turbo-ht-p2.html

However when I run BOINC's benchmark I get these results:

HT on
3401 floating point MIPS (Whetstone) per CPU
7309 integer MIPS (Dhrystone) per CPU

HT off
3049 floating point MIPS (Whetstone) per CPU
7305 integer MIPS (Dhrystone) per CPU

Difference is that with HT on I have 8 instances running against 4 with HT off. I don't know how to interpret this. The results are per CPU, not per core. My intuition tells me that it won't make much of a difference, i. e. the 4 cores will complete roughly the same ammount of tasks per day or week than the HTed 8 cores would. Could I be wrong?

As a side note I want to say that I couldn't be happier with my efforts on lowering the CPU temp.

When I got this i7 950 I wanted to run BOINC at 100% at all times, so when I saw my CPU temp stabilizing at 91-93ºC at full load (with the fan at full speed and driving me insane with it's incredibly loud noise) I was very frustrated.

So I got a good heatpipe/cooler (Ice Age Prima Boss II), did some tweakings in the BIOS and now at full load my temps stay around 59-60C (with the fan at the lowest speed, 1000RPM, that makes it extremely silent!). In the BIOS I undervolted the CPU from 1.30 to 1.05V, which helped a lot. Disabling HT made some further 3-4 degrees cooler (plus an extra bit of energy saving I guess?). It seems that with HT off I may get even lower voltages on the CPU without compromising reliability. I'll check it out soon.

Anyway, any insight about hyperthreading will be very welcome.

Cheers

- Fabio.
[Jan 6, 2011 6:07:47 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
anhhai
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

While reducing your voltage and disabling HT reduces the temp of your CPU, it also reduces the processing power of your system. What your might want to do instead is just reduce how much BOINC is running on your system. That way you still have some extra horse power available whenever you feel like doing anything CPU intensive.
To reduce the BOINC load, you can reduce the number of cores that are allowed to run or reduce the % of CPU on time.

Note, HT on vs off is about a 33% difference in performance for most projects (throughput not necessarily pts)
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[Jan 6, 2011 7:04:37 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

I've been trying to reduce my CPU's temperature and came across this possibility of disabling HT in my new i7 950 processor.


The i7-9XX line of processors do run hot ... and they were designed to run up to 100C before they throttle themselves down. I'm not saying you should run that high ... just that is the max limit. I've been running an i7-920 for almost 2 years with temps between 70-85 (depending on over volting and over clocking) and it still provides accurate, speedy results with no sign of degradation.

With your new heatsink and HT turned ON, what are you full load temps?

Regards,
Steve
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roundup
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

[...]I've been running an i7-920 for almost 2 years with temps between 70-85 (depending on over volting and over clocking) and it still provides accurate, speedy results with no sign of degradation.
[...]
Regards,
Steve

Exactly same experience with an i7-920 here smile
Furthermore I operate - as far as this machine is available - an i7-860 overclocked @ 3,8 GHz (yes, three point eight) with HT on and no errors or any other sign of degradation. Of course, there is a state-of-the-art cooler in place. Please do not try this with the boxed cooler.
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

Note, HT on vs off is about a 33% difference in performance for most projects (throughput not necessarily pts)

That would be an impressive boost considering the tests shown in the link in my first post. After trying some 50+ apps the average improvement in performance was 0% (!). It's an interesting article, check it out.
With your new heatsink and HT turned ON, what are you full load temps?

My full load temps stay around 63-64C, Steve, which is excelent IMO. I will keep HT on for now, I think.
What first bothered me wasn't the temperature, but the incredible noise from the fan. And by throttling BOINC down would make it worse, cause the fan would start to go from slow to full speed and back every few seconds, which was even more annoying.
for almost 2 years with temps between 70-85

You're not getting that with the stock cooler, I guess?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 6, 2011 1:59:18 PM]
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

Hello fabiopb,
The benchmark is a single thread. Don't use it to determine overall throughput of multiple threads in a hyperthreading environment. People report a 25% increase in throughput for WCG using i7 hyperthreading.

Personally I start making frowny faces while the CPU temps are still in the 50s (C) but realistically temps in the 60s are OK.

Lawrence
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

Here is the Intel specification for the i7 950.
The manufacturer-approved temperature for the CPU is 68 C (look for "TCASE" under "package specifications"), that's the temp it is specified to handle over the long run.

As mentioned by others, it can go up to 100 C before it shuts down from overheating, but running very hot over long periods of time may shorten the lifetime of the CPU.
I've been running about a year with temps in the 70-80 C range on an i7 920, but a new CPU cooler and a case with better airflow helped a lot - now it runs nearly silent on full load with hyperthreading on and temperature 60-64 C.

I haven't measured the performance difference for WCG, but in another project (Folding@Home) I got ~25% more performance with hyperthreading enabled, matching the numbers I hear for WCG.
[Jan 6, 2011 2:49:41 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GIBA
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

I've been trying to reduce my CPU's temperature and came across this possibility of disabling HT in my new i7 950 processor.

According to this analysis it shoulnd't make much of a difference performance-wise:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/ci7-turbo-ht-p2.html

However when I run BOINC's benchmark I get these results:

HT on
3401 floating point MIPS (Whetstone) per CPU
7309 integer MIPS (Dhrystone) per CPU

HT off
3049 floating point MIPS (Whetstone) per CPU
7305 integer MIPS (Dhrystone) per CPU

Difference is that with HT on I have 8 instances running against 4 with HT off. I don't know how to interpret this. The results are per CPU, not per core. My intuition tells me that it won't make much of a difference, i. e. the 4 cores will complete roughly the same ammount of tasks per day or week than the HTed 8 cores would. Could I be wrong?

As a side note I want to say that I couldn't be happier with my efforts on lowering the CPU temp.

When I got this i7 950 I wanted to run BOINC at 100% at all times, so when I saw my CPU temp stabilizing at 91-93ºC at full load (with the fan at full speed and driving me insane with it's incredibly loud noise) I was very frustrated.

So I got a good heatpipe/cooler (Ice Age Prima Boss II), did some tweakings in the BIOS and now at full load my temps stay around 59-60C (with the fan at the lowest speed, 1000RPM, that makes it extremely silent!). In the BIOS I undervolted the CPU from 1.30 to 1.05V, which helped a lot. Disabling HT made some further 3-4 degrees cooler (plus an extra bit of energy saving I guess?). It seems that with HT off I may get even lower voltages on the CPU without compromising reliability. I'll check it out soon.

Anyway, any insight about hyperthreading will be very welcome.

Cheers

- Fabio.



Hi Fabio,
for sure there are many indicators that with HT on you will get more performance from the machine.

I can confirm that using HT on you can crunch about 25% more tasks than without HT on for this specific i7 processors family (except for extreme ones processors...), if you will crunch at stock clocks.

Additionally the energy consumption of processor will be a little bit small using HT off. It will involve more factors to determine with precision, like what is the kind and brand of your motherboard, kind and brand of your RAM, kind and brand of your hard disks, kind and brand of your VGA (if there is one or more in the machine), kind and brand and eficiency level of your power supply, kind and brand of your cooler setup, and so on...

For sure it will depend on what the project mix you will setup to run in the machine, and till the operating system that you will install (W 7 32 or 64 Bits, Mac, Linux, etc...).

So, the combined factors to determine the result of performance to have sure about be better or not in your specific case, is so complex and depend on your own effort to discover it during some tunning time over your machine, until get a satisfactory result/bench that will be smooth under your perspective.

And to reduce the temperature, the better way I guess will have an excellent colling system in your machine, despite of you turn off HT you will have some relevant reduction in processor temperatures (and in machine overall too) if you can use a high performance level cooling/chilling system.

There are some posts across the forums where people talk about this comparisons in i7 processors, I don't remember more who post it, but a deep search could be found anything about it.

Edit: some adds in wording, and just to suggest that if you would like to discuss a little bit more about it and change more information, I will be available to chat you in Portuguese via MSN. Pick my address at the correspondent signature profile icon below. Have a nice day.
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Cheers ! GIB@ peace coffee
Join BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID team and be very happy !
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=DF99KT5DN1

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by GIBA at Jan 7, 2011 9:54:25 PM]
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Bearcat
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

I would suggest replacing the fan for a more efficient one that will allow you to crank it up without the noise. Is your computer home made or from someone like Dell, HP, etc..? Give us some info and maybe we can give you some suggestions on better parts to help cool it better.
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Crunching for humanity since 2007!

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Hypernova
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Re: i7 Hyperthread - on or off?

When I look at your numbers your CPU is clearly not overclocked and you run stock frequency 3.06 Ghz. If you haved one of those very crammed mini tower from Dell, HP etc. then you have to look by yourself what is possible to do out of my advices here under:
Switching off the HT is not an issue. Temperatures of 90 Degrees are abnormal, and you are having a cooling problem not a CPU load issue.
Check core temperatures when running idle. What temperature do you have. If your cooling is efficient you should be around 28 and even lower if you are with external air room temps of 18-20 deg C.
Check that your CPU heatsink is very firmly attached with good and even pressure. Check that the fan does run with at least 2000 rpm speed, and check that the blades and that the coolers fins are clean and without dust. Otherwise use compressed air to clean. Dust can cook your machine. If it is not well attached then dismount it, clean the two contact surfaces well (acetone is excellent for that) and then put some good thermal paste like Arctic Silver 5 or even better a ceramic based one, and the remount it.
Better of all like mentioned by Bearcat, if you have a standard cooler change it with a good one and use a good thermal paste. The size and number of fans you can attach will depend on the available space you have.
Good Luck smile
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