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Sekerob
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Re: High Priority Lockout

Ingleside,

One last time on this, so I'll be able to compile a functional FAQ of "Dont send me repairs/short deadline jobs", but still Beta and Dengue A type????????:
The quickest method to make sure you won't get any short-deadline WCG-work is to set "Connected..." to 4.01 days (or higher), since the scheduling-server won't give-out work if "Connected..." > "deadline", except if you've completely out of work in a project you'll actually allowed a single wu, even if you've got no hope of returning it by the deadline...


You've not said it now nor in past: Does this function require for the Network based on preferences to be selected... before the moans come it does not work if "Network always available" and is that behaviour consistent through all versions?
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Dena
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Re: High Priority Lockout

Hello Dena,
My point of view about running BOINC and SETI is the following:

I would run SETI only, if it has absolutely no influence on BOINC.

Personally, I do not like SETI, because it does not solve any problem on earth, and we have enough problems on earth, and in my opinion, we should solve those problems fist.

But as far as I see, if I run BOINC at 100% there are no resources left for SETI.

So, in other words, SETI simply must have negative influence on BOINC, simple mathematical
logic......

I would like to ask for further explanation about the influence of SETI on BOINC,

I would like too know as much as possible about running both programms.
Could you make it clear at first please, do really mean running them simultanously, at the same time?


Thank you.
Martin Schnellinger

Running two projects at the same time splits your time between the two projects. It is your computer so it is your decision as to who you want to give this valuable resource to. If you don't want to contribute to SETI I have not right to say otherwise.
If you have more that one core, you will tend to see the cores running different projects at the same time. If you have only one core, Boinc will switch between projects about once an hour.
In my case, I ran SETI for many years before joined WCG. SETI has more interesting forms and a more active user community than WCG has so it's more fun. On the other hand, you are correct that we may never find ET and WCG may be doing far more useful work. When I found I wasn't able to get constant work from SETI, I decided to join a second project and I decided on WCG for much the same reason you like it.
A little detail you may not be aware of is both SETI and WCG run under Boinc. Boinc is kind of an operating system that controls the whole thing. SETI and WCG are the programs that run under Boinc control.
[Sep 8, 2010 6:15:00 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ingleside
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Re: High Priority Lockout

Ingleside,

One last time on this, so I'll be able to compile a functional FAQ of "Dont send me repairs/short deadline jobs", but still Beta and Dengue A type????????:

A-type needs reliable, and with "Connected..." > 4 days chances are your average turnaround-time is larger than this, so you won't get them... But, if your average happens to be less than 2 days so your computer is "reliable", you can get them as long as the reduced deadline is 8 days and your "Connected..." < 8 days.

As for beta's, beta's isn't reliable, so this depends on the deadline. If deadline is 3 days (normal for beta?) you won't get them with 4-days setting.

You've not said it now nor in past: Does this function require for the Network based on preferences to be selected... before the moans come it does not work if "Network always available" and is that behaviour consistent through all versions?

Network "based on preferences" or "Always" doesn't matter.

The only things that matters (appart for the off-chance a project disables all deadline-checks, something AFAIK no project has done...) is:
1: Client has atleast one wu in project either in progress or cached.
2: The estimated run-time (depends on benchmark, DCF and so on).
3: The "Connected..."-setting.

If #1 is zero, no cached work in project, you can get a wu regardless of has any hope of returning this wu by deadline or not.
Hmm, apparently this is client-dependent, in v5.10.45 your estimated_delay > 0 if got atleast one wu in project on multi-cpu, but in v6.11.6 estimated_delay > 0 only if got one wu per cpu...
#2 depends on client, since depends on estimated_delay, and resource-share and so on can be reported differently depending on client.
#3 is client-independent, well except if you've got an old v3-client... tongue

The actual code goes like this, with my own comments:
if (get_estimated_delay(bav) == 0 && !hard_app(app)) return 0;
// By-pass the deadline-checks if no work on client in project,
// except if hard_app, but AFAIK only Astropulse is "hard_app".

if (config.workload_sim // more code
// AFAIK only BOINC alpha has ever used this code.

// "Normal code":

double ewd = estimate_duration(wu, bav);
if (hard_app(app)) ewd *= 1.3;
doublet est_completion_delay = get_estimated_delay(bav) + ewd;
// calculates estimated run-time based on benchmark and so on.
double est_report_delay = std::max(
est_completion_delay,
g_request->global_prefs.work_buf_min()
);
// In other words, whatever number is highest of the estimated run-time and "Connected..."
double diff = est_report_delay - wu.delay_bound;
if (diff > 0) {
// Game over, based on the calculations you won't return this wu before deadline,
// either due to too long estimated run-time or too high "Connected..."
// (whatever is largest), and therefore you won't get this wu.

----------------------------------------


"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Ingleside at Sep 8, 2010 7:36:25 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: High Priority Lockout

OK, that answers what I needed to know. For those into 'detail', here's a wiki last updated in 2009 and covering clients through 6.6.

http://boinc-wiki.info/Work_Scheduler

Some of the 'advise' I'd ignore if 1 or few projects are attached to a client and are allowed to fetch work. Go with cache/buffer less than shortest deadline is good advise or regular panic will be the earnings... and switch times funk in too, particularly when inflated :D.

edit answers
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Sep 8, 2010 7:41:19 PM]
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knreed
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Re: High Priority Lockout

@Dena

Sorry for not looking into it earlier. Your computer now has an 'average turnaround' of 7.28 days. This will prevent it from being sent any more high priority results. Due to it being a 'power mac' the reliable guidelines are much looser since there are so few of them around. As a result your computer was identified as a 'reliable' host longer than expected (which in turn kept your turnaround time low). However, now that you have moved outside of the reliable range you will not get sent any more high priority workunits and it should work as desired.

FYI - the average turnaround time required for a Power Mac to be flagged as reliable is 3.6 days vs 2 days for all other computers.
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Sekerob
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Re: High Priority Lockout

New info bit added to the Reliability FAQ :D
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Dena
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Re: High Priority Lockout

For other users with this problem, I suggest you do what I did to clear the problem. I set no new task for WCG until I was down to a few work units to process. I then turned off no new task till I had a fresh batch of work units then I turned on no new task again. This allows the work units to be processed and returned as slow turn around work units and after a few cycles the turn around time will be adjusted to reflect the true values for your system. I am now at the point where I can allow work unit demand to be managed by Boinc without manual intervention.
I still feel it's a bad idea to treat repair units different that other work units. People will adjust their program to avoid them and that will result in fewer people to process them. If a decision is made about who receives repair units, the decision should be made on who alway returns units instead of how fast the work units are returned. Also repair units should also be sent with the full measure of time so users will not want to avoid them.
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knreed
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Re: High Priority Lockout

Dena,

The reason for the use of reliable work is that we receive groups of data in batches from the researchers. For many reasons, this is the fundamental unit of data transfer between us and them. Within each batch, the strong majority of workunits finish quite quickly - within 2-3 days of them being sent out. However, there are a few stragglers that prevent the batch as a whole from being completed. Without the 'reliable' mechanism in place, these stragglers were taking weeks to complete and thus delaying completing batches. Depending on the particular project, having more batches in progress at the same time consumes significantly more storage and increases the size of the database. These have both caused us issues on the backend in the past. With the reliable mechanism in place, batches finish about 1.5*deadline. Without it, they were taking 3-4*deadline.

What Seti@Home is doing is causing some new challenges for BOINC. I only learned about the 3 day shutdown from David Anderson a couple of weeks ago. I do not believe that he is aware of this type of issue as of yet and I will be sending this information on to him. It is something that we (World Community Grid as well as BOINC as a whole) will have to figure out as both needs are valid and real.

thanks,
Kevin
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gb009761
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Re: High Priority Lockout

Hi Kevin, I'm sure you/someone will have already thought about this suggestion in the past, so I'm just adding it into the mix so that it's documented - what about a 'reliable host opt out' button?. That way, for whatever reason, someone can opt their machine out of receiving repair WU's ever again (of course, the default would be 'opt in'). Perhaps, it could work similar to the Beta WU function - only this time, in reverse?
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Former Member
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Re: High Priority Lockout

Hi Kevin, I'm sure you/someone will have already thought about this suggestion in the past, so I'm just adding it into the mix so that it's documented - what about a 'reliable host opt out' button?. That way, for whatever reason, someone can opt their machine out of receiving repair WU's ever again (of course, the default would be 'opt in'). Perhaps, it could work similar to the Beta WU function - only this time, in reverse?
This idea will add a new set of support headaches as crunchers wonder why their systems never receive repair units. Better to leave the system working for the majority of crunchers and NOT add complexity for special cases outside of WCG.
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