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Highwire
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

I feel people are losing track of what's going on here, and what the real issue is! :( Ok laying it all out:
1. This exact hardware ran 32 bit windows until 2 weeks ago, and fairly thumped through the tasks. This included FAAH, it had no issue, and was hammering through them. I ran a lot of FAAH on this machine.
2. I upgraded to Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.
3. I noticed that, although I was running the machine lots, indeed 24 hours a day, machine credit was going down dramatically. The machine (windows 7 foibles aside) is fast and working ok.
4. I looked further and have worked out that it's not a mere bit of credit maths allocation that's gone wrong, for some reason, FAAH on W7 U 64 bit, on exact same hardware it was fine with before, is running A LOT SLOWER. I mean a LOT slower, like 20 something hours on a machine that's estimated to (and probably was) running them in 5.X hours. OTHER tasks are still belting through with great gusto.
5. I've ran all WCG tasks for a couple days on it, and they in general seem fine. The credity graph is shooting back up again, it was woeful running what from memory was just HHC and FAAH, as FAAH was hogging it - slowly.
6. This isn't so much about credit though, poor credit is a SYMPTOM. The poor credit is CAUSED by taking SO LONG to run FAAH on a machine that should be completing them in a FRACTION of the time. See?

Something is up with FAAH, and perhaps HFCC. I've been running HFCC on it and none are valid yet so can't list claimed / given.

THAT is the issue, FAAH is for some reason running a LOT LOT slower.

I don't know why, the process seems to be incrementing CPU cycles same rate, isn't doing wierd activity... not page faulting overly .. It's a mystery. Unless maybe it's doing something in machine code that's specific to 32 bit processors but surely others would have seen? Why is FAAH on one core running like crap when on adjacent core, HCC is running fine?
And if it IS USING these CPU cycles, what's it DOING with them?!
[Feb 7, 2010 12:05:15 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Highwire
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

Ok some HFCC have went valid, and as I'd feared, they also appear to be misbehaving, with what appears to be same symptom:
HFCC_ s1_ 02660580_ s1_ 0000_ 0-- 11.81 234.6 / 132.5
HFCC_ s1_ 02646787_ s1_ 0000_ 0-- 12.55 253.7 / 136.1
HFCC_ s1_ 02578184_ s1_ 0001_ 0-- 12.50 252.7 / 142.3
Now this could be helpful, as a good question is, what do FAAH and HFCC have in common, that is different to all the other WCG tasks, that could make them run much more slowly on a stable new W7 64 bit install?
[Feb 7, 2010 4:01:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Hypernova
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

I am switching to FAAH. I should start on Wednesday tu crunch until Sapphire is reached. I must first empty the pipeline of HFCC WU's and this should take one more day. I will run on three type of i7 processors all running 8 threads each, and with Win7 64bit. All processors are overclocked (dunno if this has an impact). I will see if there are differences in the ratio credit claim/award with each processor type.
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[Feb 8, 2010 6:18:32 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

Highwire, you did not answer the question if these jobs were run with wingmen or not. If they did, how do they look on run times?

Short list pulled from BOINCtasks history for my stock Quad W7-64, with 64 bit client:

World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02475753_s1_0001 06:04:46 (06:04:09) 4-2-2010 3:13:34 4-2-2010 3:14:10 Ok
World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02475524_s1_0001 04:05:07 (03:56:54) 3-2-2010 18:41:29 3-2-2010 18:41:53 Ok
World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02473462_s1_0000 07:40:49 (07:28:31) 3-2-2010 23:55:50 3-2-2010 23:56:26 Ok
World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02465359_s1_0000 05:59:48 (05:58:35) 3-2-2010 2:33:59 3-2-2010 2:34:23 Ok
World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02463588_s1_0001 04:59:11 (04:45:06) 3-2-2010 8:48:19 3-2-2010 8:48:44 Ok
World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02461106_s1_0000 05:37:28 (05:36:29) 3-2-2010 3:49:01 3-2-2010 3:49:37 Ok
World Community Grid 6.10 Help Fight Childhood Cancer HFCC_s1_02460579_s1_0000 06:33:17 (06:15:37) 2-2-2010 18:49:56 2-2-2010 18:50:33 Ok

Bracket times are real CPU times, the ones before the wallclock... ranging from 4 to 7.66 hours
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[Feb 8, 2010 6:33:52 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Highwire
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

"Run with wingmen" : Do you mean are multiple people running them to cross reference results? I thought that was generally the case but ok, clicking on the only 2 results now in results list for that computer:

Name: faah10612_ZINC32118998_xMut_md07200_00
Minimum Quorum: 1 Replication: 1
Result Name App Version Number Status Sent Time Time Due /
Return Time CPU Time (hours) Claimed/ Granted BOINC Credit
faah10612_ ZINC32118998_ xMut_ md07200_ 00_ 0-- 607 Valid 06/02/10 14:44:16 08/02/10 00:23:32 13.60 273.9 / 144.7
Name: faah10443_ZINC19664077_xMut_md07200_02
Minimum Quorum: 1 Replication: 1
Result Name App Version Number Status Sent Time Time Due /
Return Time CPU Time (hours) Claimed/ Granted BOINC Credit
faah10443_ ZINC19664077_ xMut_ md07200_ 02_ 1-- 607 Valid 06/02/10 11:14:52 07/02/10 20:24:51 13.87 279.3 / 146.4
faah10443_ ZINC19664077_ xMut_ md07200_ 02_ 0-- - No Reply 27/01/10 11:15:22 06/02/10 11:15:22 0.00 0.0 / 0.0

So I'm thinking that's a no? I though there normally was, maybe project changed policy.
[Feb 8, 2010 9:41:49 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
asdavid
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

Hello
I noticed the same behavior with FAAH since last week-end.
see my post there: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,28437
Granted credit was dramatically low versus claimed, and i did not change anything on my computer i could remind.

faah10315_ ZINC00188404_ xMut_ md07200_ 00_ 1-- L3BVH0C Valid 2/9/10 17:41:33 2/10/10 21:06:25 10.29 77.5 / 166.9
faah10668_ ZINC04272201_ xMut_ md03380_ 00_ 0-- L3BVH0C Valid 2/9/10 13:34:56 2/10/10 22:24:36 15.45 131.7 / 270.9
faah10667_ ZINC04226794_ xMut_ md03380_ 00_ 0-- L3BVH0C Valid 2/9/10 12:28:37 2/10/10 09:34:27 13.28 180.2 / 79.7
faah10644_ ZINC32231320_ xMut_ md07200_ 01_ 0-- L3BVH0C Valid 2/8/10 14:35:16 2/9/10 12:28:37 15.78 221.4 / 78.0
faah10637_ ZINC32203482_ xMut_ md07200_ 01_ 0-- L3BVH0C Valid 2/8/10 04:04:07 2/9/10 08:58:38 12.23 181.3 / 63.3

And suddenly today, it is the opposite: see the two first ones on the list.
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Rickjb
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

@Highwire:
'"Run with wingmen" : Do you mean are multiple people running them to cross reference results?'
He means the small number of FAAH results where there were 2 Valid results in the quorum, i.e. where your or the wingman's device is being checked, or where the first guy on the WU got an error of some kind.
On these results, you can check that your credits are the same as the wingman's.
Not really a useful exercise, since the credits will always be the same if the results are Valid, and the CPU times will normally be different anyway.
With the second result you list above, you are on the right track (2 in quorum), but you ran the WU alone after the wingman timed out.

If it's helpful, I calculated the averages for 10 recent single-member-quorum FAAH results from my 3.25GHz QX9650 (Win XP-32), and 10 from my Q9650 @ 4.03GHz (Win XP-64). These should run very close, clock-for-clock, to your Q9550, as only their memory access speeds will be different, and I'm on XP-32/XP-64, not Win 7-64.
Both machines would have been running 1 or 2 HCC WUs concurrently with the FAAH WUs. This eases potential memory bottlenecks on the LGA775 FSB, since HCC makes fewer main memory accesses than FAAH.
CPU Time | Claimed | Awarded
QX9650, 3.25GHz, Win XP-32:
4.8 | 103.3 | 117.1
Scaling the average CPU time to 3.0GHz:
4.8 x 3.25 / 3.0 = 5.2 hours
Q9650, 4.03GHz, Win XP-64:
3.65 | 100.2 | 117.4
Scaling the average CPU time:
3.65 x 4.03 / 3.0 = 4.9 hours
Does that match your performance pre Win 7?
[Edit]: These statistics were gathered after Highwire reported the slow-execution problem.
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Rickjb at Feb 12, 2010 4:37:06 AM]
[Feb 11, 2010 6:18:15 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

Not really a useful exercise, since the credits will always be the same if the results are Valid, and the CPU times will normally be different anyway.

No that's not what he meant. It tells face-to-face about the run time of the wingman (and of lesser significance the claim to get a performance relevant indicator)... about 20% for one reason or the other has a second copy circulated, amongst random verification and a series each time a bad result is delivered by a client! If there were something wrong with the application, then more than just the very few would experience this. There are already 16,000 connected to WCG with W7.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Feb 11, 2010 7:52:47 AM]
[Feb 11, 2010 7:35:39 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Highwire
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

I don't see what running with wingmen would tell us given it's already proved that this machine is running FAAH a lot lot slower than it should?

"If there were something wrong with the application, then more than just the very few would experience this. There are already 16,000 connected to WCG with W7."
'Something wrong' is a loaded phrase but it's certainly not running correctly, when other tasks ARE running correctly.

And even if 16,000 are running WCG, what % are running FAAH, what % are running on 64 bit, what number are running FAAH *ON* W7 64 bit, and what number of these would know the signs that it was running slowly, or how to check?

I noticed it because of the upgrade, if it was a new machine, or I was less nosey, maybe I'd have just assumed 'that's the length of time it should take'.

I've put some FAAH back in the que for that computer, will switch back for a bit and see how long they take, on old OS.
[Feb 11, 2010 10:31:43 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
wplachy
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Re: Windows 7 / 64 bit / Lower Credit?

Highwire, you have my curiosity piqued. I just turned on FAAH for a mix of XP (32bit), Vista (32 & 64bit) and Win 7 (32 & 64bit) machines. The Vista and 1 of the Win 7 (64bit) PCs are exactly the same both in hardware and other tasks running with BOINC so comparison should be valid. Since I run about a 0.20 day cache I won’t have any results until tomorrow. I’ll post what I find.
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[Feb 11, 2010 10:49:42 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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