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Former Member
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VMware question

So I've been mulling this over for a bit and haven't come to any kind of conclusion.

What I would like to know is, let's say
I put VMware on my system,
then boot say 3 or 4 windows XP OS's concurrently.
Then in each of the visualized OS's I run Bionc.

How would the scheduler see my system? as 4 systems each with a quad core cpu (I've got a Q6600) ?
[Sep 1, 2009 10:37:25 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
uplinger
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Re: VMware question

Basically it depends on how you set up your virtual images. If you set each of them to use the multiple cores, then boinc will see them as multiple cores. Which would be redundant and cause them to fight for resources.

We do not recommend running it on virtual machines. The main reason for that is, BOINC runs at lowest priority on the system. The system in this case being the virtual machine. BUT on the actual machine the virtual machine is running at normal priority. This would cause it to use up all of the cpu. If you wanted to use the cpu for anything else it would have to compete with the vm images.

It is best to install BOINC on the base system that hosting the vm images. This would allow it to back off as lowest priority when the virtual machines required CPU.

Hope this helps,
-Uplinger
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Re: VMware question

Uplinger,

Thanks for the response. So from your reply, I presume if I had 4 visualized os's running concurrently, it would see my system as having say 16 cores without regard to how much work it actually performed.

So in this case someone could get say 16 days worth of credit in say, 1 day?

Hmmmm..... interesting concept... devilish

So I guess if someone just wanted badges, this could be a conceivable vehicle to quickly acquire days of contribution without regard to actual contribution?
[Sep 2, 2009 12:12:38 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
uplinger
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Re: VMware question

Well, but like i said, you would then have 4 processes using up 4 cores each running at 100% cpu without knowledge of the other one so fighting and using up 4 times the memory on the computer. The system would in theory become unresponsive.

Also, I would imagine that there would be a downside to the CPU usage in comparison to your benchmarks...

-Uplinger
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Re: VMware question

I knew up front this wasn't a very practical idea. I was just curious to see if it could be done this way to acquire days of contribution quickly.

I wonder if anyone has actually attempted this kind of lash up.
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Sekerob
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Re: VMware question

"16 days of credit" meaning "16 days of Runtime credit", not points. With a Q6600 obviously there are X cycles to dole out, so whether you have them efficiently used by 4 science processes or via VM to run 16 processes is up front rather inefficient.

Whether you get 16 CPU days? Probably less as wallclock is not same as CPU time, but then on a hyperthreaded I7 you get ~8 days for 4 cores. How true the benchmarks will then be?

Yes it's been done but cannot remember what the credit like outcome was i.e. low benchmarks or constant outlier?
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[Sep 2, 2009 7:08:13 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
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Re: VMware question

So in this case someone could get say 16 days worth of credit in say, 1 day?
In a well designed environment each user application should be reported the real net CPU time that it actually gets. It was running this way in the VM systems I used when I was still in activity. And in this case you would waste/lose all the systems' overhead.

But how well designed are VMware and Windows (or Linux)? I don't know...
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KerSamson
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Re: VMware question

Hello Jean,
I think the basic question is : How well designed is Boinc ? ...
I can imagine that using multiple VMs seems to be "attractive" regarding an artificial increasing of crunching days. But, in this case, how will be credit estimated and granted.
I am afraid that such approach could have a significant impact of the "credit granting mechanism" and finally having a "negative" impact on the honest co-crunchers.
Cheers,
Yves
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[Sep 3, 2009 10:42:08 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
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Re: VMware question

Salut Yves!
I think the basic question is : How well designed is Boinc ? ...

For once Boinc is not at fault on this topic, I think.
I think that the CPU times are handled by the science applications and simply passed to the Boinc client. And regarding used CPU times the science applications (or Boinc if I am wrong) cannot do better if the used CPU times that they get from the system(s) are not correctly reflecting the useful cycles they have got.

Cheers. Jean.
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[Sep 3, 2009 10:58:02 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
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Re: VMware question

Virtual machines are designed (generally) so that the software running above it does not know that it is running in a virtual image. The operating system (usually) does not know and certainly applications running on top of the operating system do not. Thus BOINC could not know if it is running on a virtual machine or not.

However, in this situation the actual performance of the virtual machines would be poor and this would be reflected in the credit granted for the results returned.

If we find that that this becomes an issue then we could change the requirements for the medals to require a min cpu time and min credit earned. I wouldn't want to do this now because it would likely cause some people to lose medals, but this would address the issue.

How about this. Don't cheat. Don't make us waste our time fighting cheating when we could be working on other items. Focus on contributing to research. If you see someone else cheating - call them on it. Public pressure is often more effective then any mechanisms we could put in place.

thanks,
Kevin
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