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keithhenry
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

[tonguesomewhatincheek]

OKAY! Who's the that decided CUSTOMER SERVICE has to be an OXYMORON!!! It's NOT an adversarial contest. It's not like I expect to be nor am I into I just want some actual service that's right.

[/tonguesonewhatincheek]

You wouldn't believe the latest on my laptop. I think this is going to be one for a letter to an executive. We'll see how it plays out. I had to chuckle earlier today when I called the phone company about my DSL. After asking for my phone number, they actually told me that there was a known outage in my area, all without me talking to a human. Hmm....that puts them up to about the 1970's service-wise I think. The part that made me laugh was the part of the recording that mentioned that all of their call centers are in the US. Guess their off-shoring them prior to that didn't work quite as well as expected!
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[Jun 10, 2009 2:16:21 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

CPU MULTI-THREADING AT AQUA
What Do MOT Members Think About This????


News
AQUA's multi-threaded applications and BOINC
05-June-2009
Like using CUDA cards, multi-threading is a way for us to shorten the run time of our work units. Multi-threaded applications are new to BOINC, so you will see behavior such as one application using all the cores in the computer. Please allow such work units to continue running. BOINC makes sure that all projects you are subscribed to will receive a fair share of your computing resources. We need your help in getting this research done. Thank you for your support!
AQUA's application supports Multi-Processors on Windows, Linux, and Mac
04-June-2009
Up to now AQUA used to employ a single core to process its data. Starting with version 2.18, AQUA's appication uses multi-threading to use multiple cores and speed up its computation. 32-bit and 64-bit Windows, Linux, and Mac platforms are supported. AQUA's application uses OpenMP to create and manage its threads. So now AQUA uses either CUDA or OpenMP (but not both at the same time) to decrease its execution time.


For those that may not understand, this means that ONE GPU wu uses your GPU and part of a CPU and ONE CPU wu uses ALL of the other cores. “They say” it will coexist with other projects but I have not tested it as I do not run AQUA CPU jobs. “They said” AQUA GPU would coexist with other GPU projects but that was not the case up to app 3.17. I have not tested it since then. As far as I can tell you cannot turn off multi-threading.

I would be interested in what MOT members think about this as it may be used in other projects too. I’m not sure what I think about it.


I am liking AQUA as a project less and less every day. I'm uncomfortable enough with us crunching for a for- profit company. Multi-threading their WU's is flat out wrong. Yes, BOINC is supposed to manage resource share but they're hogging your machines. You choose to crunch multiple projects and they're saying "Up yours, we're going to monopolize your CPU anyway. Yes, BOINC is supposed to not impact you using your machine for other tasks but, if they mess anything up, their screw-up could adversely impact how BOINC and DC crunching is perceived by users. As the Lost In Space robot said: "DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!"


FYI, I'm done with AQUA. WU's take forever on 260 GTX, don't yield that many points, and slow my machine severely. Back to GPUGrid for this cruncher.
[Jun 10, 2009 3:05:43 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
darth_vader
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

As the Lost In Space robot said: "DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!"

I'm not liking multithreading either but I will not be there long. Not liking their tactics either. One must admit they are a smooth operation though ... very professional ... not like some of the "garage band" projects. laughing


That's why I like to check out projects first before setting up MOT there. No, that's not perfect either as projects can and do change but I intended to have a method to the madness of what projects we crunched at.

I don't care if they are for profit. I just don't understand their science.


LOL their white paper reads like something out of Star Trek... quantum here quantum there, quantum torpedoes everywhere lol laughing
laughing
My USD .02 ...
The white paper is simple enough, but they gloss over why they want to solve QUBO problems and how that applies to what their stated goal is (machine learning). I didn't chase down all the references. Maybe it was described better elsewhere. The AQUA simulations will have to be validated by the hardware, which, if they get it working (properly), won't take long.

This all sounded somewhat familiar. Superconducting computer hardware was researched in the late '70s and simple working prototypes were built. IBM was trying to build and commercialize a Josephson junction processor, but ran into a large number of practical problems. A lot has changed since then and D-Wave may be more successful.

As far as multithreading ... it doesn't look like the BOINC support is quite ready for prime time, judging from the amount of activity in that area. My quick read of what's going on leads me to the conclusion that they will let a multithreaded application monopolize a system if it wants to because BOINC doesn't really recognize multiple threads. This could cause CPU thrashing if you tell BOINC to use all cores (real and HT) and one or more of the WUs is multithreaded. If you don't want to run any other BOINC project then maybe it isn't a problem. However, if you have just a single core and no HT, it'll run slower, not faster. I think AQUA has jumped before they looked. Bottom line: I don't like the idea, at least not yet and maybe not for some time.

- D
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brown chris
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

As the Lost In Space robot said: "DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!"

I'm not liking multithreading either but I will not be there long. Not liking their tactics either. One must admit they are a smooth operation though ... very professional ... not like some of the "garage band" projects. laughing


That's why I like to check out projects first before setting up MOT there. No, that's not perfect either as projects can and do change but I intended to have a method to the madness of what projects we crunched at.

I don't care if they are for profit. I just don't understand their science.


LOL their white paper reads like something out of Star Trek... quantum here quantum there, quantum torpedoes everywhere lol laughing
laughing
My USD .02 ...
The white paper is simple enough, but they gloss over why they want to solve QUBO problems and how that applies to what their stated goal is (machine learning). I didn't chase down all the references. Maybe it was described better elsewhere. The AQUA simulations will have to be validated by the hardware, which, if they get it working (properly), won't take long.

This all sounded somewhat familiar. Superconducting computer hardware was researched in the late '70s and simple working prototypes were built. IBM was trying to build and commercialize a Josephson junction processor, but ran into a large number of practical problems. A lot has changed since then and D-Wave may be more successful.

As far as multithreading ... it doesn't look like the BOINC support is quite ready for prime time, judging from the amount of activity in that area. My quick read of what's going on leads me to the conclusion that they will let a multithreaded application monopolize a system if it wants to because BOINC doesn't really recognize multiple threads. This could cause CPU thrashing if you tell BOINC to use all cores (real and HT) and one or more of the WUs is multithreaded. If you don't want to run any other BOINC project then maybe it isn't a problem. However, if you have just a single core and no HT, it'll run slower, not faster. I think AQUA has jumped before they looked. Bottom line: I don't like the idea, at least not yet and maybe not for some time.

- D

Maybe it's because I'm running Vista 64-bit, but honestly the MT wu's seem pretty tame to me.
Granted I'm only running three projects right now, and WCG is the only other one using the CPU, but it thumps right along not bothered at all by the multi- threaded AQUA wu's. Nor does the rest of the computer. I really don't even notice that it's running.
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BIG BANG THEORY: In the beginning there was nothing... which exploded
[Jun 10, 2009 4:00:09 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

WU's take forever on 260 GTX,

And conversly they are taking 80% of the time on my 8500GT than a 9800GT.

and slow my machine severely.


Because the GPU usage is not constant and fluxuates widely over the length of the wu.

My USD .02 ...
The white paper is simple enough, but they gloss over why they want to solve QUBO problems and how that applies to what their stated goal is (machine learning). I didn't chase down all the references. Maybe it was described better elsewhere. The AQUA simulations will have to be validated by the hardware, which, if they get it working (properly), won't take long.

This all sounded somewhat familiar. Superconducting computer hardware was researched in the late '70s and simple working prototypes were built. IBM was trying to build and commercialize a Josephson junction processor, but ran into a large number of practical problems. A lot has changed since then and D-Wave may be more successful.

As far as multithreading ... it doesn't look like the BOINC support is quite ready for prime time, judging from the amount of activity in that area. My quick read of what's going on leads me to the conclusion that they will let a multithreaded application monopolize a system if it wants to because BOINC doesn't really recognize multiple threads. This could cause CPU thrashing if you tell BOINC to use all cores (real and HT) and one or more of the WUs is multithreaded. If you don't want to run any other BOINC project then maybe it isn't a problem. However, if you have just a single core and no HT, it'll run slower, not faster. I think AQUA has jumped before they looked. Bottom line: I don't like the idea, at least not yet and maybe not for some time.

- D

Thanks ... a very good description. Multithreading aside, I've noticed something on the GPU side. Wu's built after 06/01 are now coming into the queue as 1.44 hours. Where I use to get 1, I now get 3. When one starts the estimate jumps to 30 hrs or longer. It may end up running more or less but now I have 3 long-running jobs queued even with the 0.01 day queue setting. If you add multithreaded CPUs, this could take everything and hang on to it for a long time. I agree with you, BOINC does not handle the long-term debt very well now. I don't think it will handle this to the benefit of other projects.

Anyway .... I'll refrain from conspiricy theories about this progression of events not being accidental. laughing

Bottom line is all my cards are back at GPUGrid except the 8500GT. It can't do anything anywhere else right now.
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[Jun 10, 2009 4:00:55 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

Maybe it's because I'm running Vista 64-bit, but honestly the MT wu's seem pretty tame to me.
Granted I'm only running three projects right now, and WCG is the only other one using the CPU, but it thumps right along not bothered at all by the multi- threaded AQUA wu's. Nor does the rest of the computer. I really don't even notice that it's running.


Well heck, you are the only one that has emperical data. wink I have not run their CPU side for about two months.
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[Jun 10, 2009 4:14:33 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
meowpao
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile


Bottom line is all my cards are back at GPUGrid except the 8500GT. It can't do anything anywhere else right now.


What I don't like about GPUGrid is their really short deadlines, and that I can't use older cards. Other than that they're ok. :)
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[Jun 10, 2009 4:40:41 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile


Bottom line is all my cards are back at GPUGrid except the 8500GT. It can't do anything anywhere else right now.


What I don't like about GPUGrid is their really short deadlines, and that I can't use older cards. Other than that they're ok. :)


Yeah, I wish there was a way to choose how long a work unit you want to receive so that slower machines could still crunch...
[Jun 10, 2009 5:32:39 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
NiceMedTexMD
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cool Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

I just saw we're 198 on the boincstats? biggrin

Dr. Mike
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[Jun 10, 2009 12:40:56 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 36 smilesmile

I just saw we're 198 on the boincstats? biggrin

Dr. Mike

#196 by Friday. confused

****

Yep, I want someplace for the older cards too. Maybe MW but they are doing ATI first and seem to be thrashing around. sad
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