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Former Member
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

Lots of people are making the same mistake, often after seeing threads like this and getting worried.

Inconclusives are not errors.

Do not report inconclusives - wait until they are revalidated.

Thank you.
[Apr 27, 2009 9:52:44 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

How many inconclusives, sequentially? Someone else came and left that question in the air just said "a raft of inconclusive"... when it came back it were just like 8. Make a change to the computer or have a benchmark that deviates materially from past and you WILL have to proof the device is fit for a project, speak FAAH or DDDT or HFCC to go it alone on zero redundancy projects. If your overall number stays below say 10-15% of a longer series than it's within norm. If it's higher and still always validating, consider to do some serious hardware/installation diagnostics
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Apr 27, 2009 9:58:46 AM]
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Former Member
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

WCG is obviously a very complex project and I have times where I just do not understand what causes so many issues for crunchers. I have been away from HFCC for a few weeks, working on year 3 and 4 for NRW, and I have just gone back to HFCC.

So far I have 25 Valid, 1 Inconclusive and no errors. Seems to me that is how it should work. Now I do not do anything fancy to my systems but I have a variety of CPU, memory and Windows OS. Most of my systems are unattended (as far as WCG goes). I have had 34 systems loaded and only had 2 systems that gave me problems (1 was W98 and the other was a Windows SSL error on a XP SP1 system). I have had 32 of 34 WCG installs go flawlessly.

Its got to be very frustrating at times for the CAs having to support an infinite number of hardware configurations, firewalls, overclocking, AV issues, all compounded by choices users make during installation/operation.

I guess my point is that Murphy's law (Whatever can go wrong will go wrong) is alive and kicking within WCG, but it does not have to affect everyone. It is possible to get it right, so do not despair if you hit a bump in the road.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

Its got to be very frustrating at times for the CAs having to support an infinite number of hardware configurations, firewalls, overclocking, AV issues, all compounded by choices users make during installation/operation.

Considering everything you say, which is true (and you forgot the variety of people, cultures, technical levels and backgrounds), I find that it is going pretty well. Sometimes I even find it boring when everything seems to go well. smile
And now I have one same beta WU to watch for 9 days, or probably more since I switch the machine which runs it between XP and Linux. Sigh...

Regarding Inconclusives I have the feeling that sometimes a WU much shorter or longer than the average of the same project is enough to make the servers "decide" to start double checking. Which does not seem illogical after all.

Cheers. Jean.
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Sekerob
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

Started to have large numbers of Inconclusive (aka Pending Revalidation) on my quad for the zero redundancy projects followed with equal numbers of init 2 copies, until solving the mystery. The logs were mostly clean and some showed the infamous Loss of Heartbeat, which gave me the clue of the possible cause. 48 hours later, all ZR projects validate again immediately, no more init 2. The solution, too simple and now knowing that the minibench-maker is sufficiently influenced/impaired to let the validator decide it needed a second opinion for most.

Interest peaked? I'm sure some have come across this before and will share the answer.
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Steve WCG
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

I'll make a guess based on my incomplete understanding and in hopes that you will respond to this post.

Is it that if your results are not within x% of what BM calculates based on your last benchmark (which IIRC is once every 5 days) then you go inconclusive? If this is the case I would really like to know because I have 2 stable OC settings that I switch between based on the weather / ambient temps in my study. If all I need to do after I switch is to force boinc manager to run benchmarks then I will gladly do so to help WCG be that tiny faction more efficient intead of making it send 2 quorum or sending up inconclusive results.

Looking forward to the REAL answer.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

Steve WCG,
I think it is one of the possible causes of temporarily switching your computer to double checking mode: when the server (not BM) detects a change of the performance of one device it will check its results by sending a second copy for the first WUs returned after the change and it will use redundancy for the WUs its sends you until it gets confirmation that everything is fine.

When you change the clock speed of your machine you should trigger a new benchmark. First because it is fair, next to have only one phase of redundancy mode. Otherwise you will have two per change. One when the server detects that your machine works faster ot slower than before, and this phase will still exist. But if you don't trigger the benchmark the server will detect a change of credits per hour when the regular scheduled benchmark occurs later, and you will get a second phase in redundancy mode.

Cheers. Jean.
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Sekerob
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

I'll make a guess based on my incomplete understanding and in hopes that you will respond to this post.

Is it that if your results are not within x% of what BM calculates based on your last benchmark (which IIRC is once every 5 days) then you go inconclusive? If this is the case I would really like to know because I have 2 stable OC settings that I switch between based on the weather / ambient temps in my study. If all I need to do after I switch is to force boinc manager to run benchmarks then I will gladly do so to help WCG be that tiny faction more efficient intead of making it send 2 quorum or sending up inconclusive results.

Looking forward to the REAL answer.

Apart from having to benchmark again if the CPU hertz are changed, which can be done manually, the other more permanent cause is the AV that clearly through it's perpetual checking caused the result-included mini benchmarks to produce unstable results. I moved the Data_Dir and forgot to tell the AV the new location to exclude from scanning. That was all it was, and good live proof of the hindrance AV software causes with their constant interference.

On the cycle changing, that impacts the user too if switched down, so now I'm happy as a bunny with TThrottle on the Windows based machines. It throttles the cycles for the BOINC sciences [only] get based on sensed CPU/GPU temperatures, which you can adjust. The responsiveness of the user apps is not impacted this way.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at May 11, 2009 4:38:55 PM]
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roundup
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Re: Lots of Inconclusive

... when the server (not BM) detects a change of the performance of one device it will check its results by sending a second copy for the first WUs returned after the change ...


@ JmBoullier and Sekerob

Thanks for the explanations. I had the same behavior when I updated to BOINC Manager 6.6.20 in order to use CUDA for better perfomance. This stopped when 15 new results had been validated.
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