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Sekerob
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Re: Beta WU Priority

The rule is that a client tries to return a task 24 hours before deadline, thus if received one say 40 hours before deadline and it reckons it's taking 20 hours to complete, it will kick in the EDF rule before you can even blink but no later than that 24 hour "before" target return time is under threat.

Anytime you suspend a task to push another forward you cause a lot of whirring, plus work fetching is suspended until all tasks are released again, but in your case you seem to be doing that immediately.

If you want to push a task you better make sure to first do the once you dont want to push in the Ready to Start condition before suspending jobs already running or you could end up with tasks that hog memory with 0, 1 or a few seconds on the clock. BOINC processes multi line commands sequentially from the top in the order they have been sorted on display.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Dec 4, 2008 8:05:26 PM]
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Rickjb
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Re: Beta WU Priority

(Referring to Sekerob's post above) ...
... and it reckons it's taking 20 hours to complete, ...
BOINC seems to have very little idea of how long tasks are going to take :-) That's not BOINC's fault, as explained elsewhere.
Anyway, the slower machines are taking more than 24 hrs to run these tasks, so it would be better if they start on them before the automatic panic mechanism kicks in. Example slower machine:
BETA_ E000370_ 342A_ 001e94184_ 1 | Valid | 2/12/08 23:52:20 | 4/12/08 06:45:49 | 29.13 | 206.3 / 220.6
Anytime you suspend a task to push another forward you cause a lot of whirring, plus work fetching is suspended until all tasks are released again
A bit of a whir now and then is good for the soul. Some music helps ;-)
I know that suspended tasks prevent BOINC from downloading more, so:
** DON'T FORGET to resume all suspended tasks as soon as you see that the new ones are running ***
If you want to push a task you better make sure to first do the once you dont want to push in the Ready to Start condition before suspending jobs already running or you could end up with tasks that hog memory with 0, 1 or a few seconds on the clock.
It took me a while to work out what Sekerob really means here ... that suspending the running tasks as well as some that are Ready to start, in the same Suspend request, could inadvertently briefly start and suspend extra tasks. I have never experienced this. If you are worried, first suspend just the "Ready to start jobs", and then suspend as many running tasks as you need, in a second click of the button.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Rickjb at Dec 5, 2008 12:07:02 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: Beta WU Priority

A good observer had seen that these beta's had an unexpected wide spread and those same observers had read knreed's post explaining that the project will track and compute the 3 types so it can tell BOINC what to expect in fpops from which it derives the run-times.
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Ian_UK
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Re: Beta WU Priority

Quote: "Prioritizing on deadline only happens when the client computes there is a contention, speak a panic condition."

Unfortunately calculated "To Completion" times appear to be been incorrectly calculated for some of the Beta tasks, so our computers dont recognise in time that this contention exists and thus deadlines get missed. Saying this it would be amazing to get a bronze Beta Badge in days/months instead of decades wink if can receive more units devilish .

Unfortunately the long Beta units have also adjusted all the expected "To Completion" dates including HCC (only other units I'm running at the moment) in BOINC 6.2.28. No unit has been completed anywhere near the times the computer has said the unit should have returned. Believe has been said before that it takes about a week of crunching to resolve, when the units have stabilized in time.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Beta WU Priority

Believe has been said before that it takes about a week of crunching to resolve, when the units have stabilized in time.

In fact it depends. The Duration Correction Factor (DCF) is adjusted every time a WU finishes. So if you are running HCC only on a quad you might be back to a more reasonable estimate within one day or two. Or even faster if it is an 8-core. smile
Unless you get a new repair Beta WU as I have just had, with the usual unreachable deadline (no worry, see other threads)...

Cheers. Jean.
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Rickjb
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Re: Beta WU Priority

A suggestion for Repair Units' return times:
Unless you get a new repair Beta WU as I have just had, with the usual unreachable deadline ...
I just crunched one of these. It had a return allowance of only 9.5 or 10 hours, and BOINC ran it at High Priority, pre-empting other tasks. My machine returned it with 1 hour to spare, but the vast majority would not, leading to problems, perceived or otherwise, with a Too Late status.
If the return allowances were increased to just under 24 hrs, BOINC's High Priority machanism would still kick in, the results would be returned just as soon, and most computers would meet the deadlines. Fewer people would be unhappy. - HTH
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Sekerob
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Re: Beta WU Priority

A suggestion was made earlier in the back room v.v. this condition. There's a reasonable probability that the extra copies come back after the "No reply" returns evading a "Too Late", not sure. Just let it crunch and use the opportunity to increase chance for that coveted Beta badge. biggrin
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Re: Beta WU Priority

BETA_ E000370_ 388A_ 001e95186_ 2-- Expedition Valid 04/12/08 10:29:13 05/12/08 13:17:06 21.39 267.2 / 261.2
This WU came with an estimate of 7+ hours to this Core 2 Duo machine. Was the run time estimate just wrong or is there a variable that really causes it to run that much longer? It surely will mess the various time factors for a while.

BETA_ E000370_ 296A_ 001e93182_ 0-- Probe Pending Validation 02/12/08 23:43:47 05/12/08 07:11:56 52.81 319.2 / 0.0
This is a single core P4 computer that also arrived with a 7+ hour estimate. I hope it validates and gets me the 2 days. It should have started almost immediately as a Panic job but did not.

Maybe that is the key concept, where the job estimate is too low so the WU doesn't panic, then when it starts normally it turns into a Panic job as the WU lengthens the estimate to the actual time, and may have no chance at finishing in time. This causes No Response and Too late status codes that are false and messes up the computer for the next week.
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knreed
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Re: Beta WU Priority

Please note that you will get credit for a late result as long as it is returned within 5 days of the deadline.

All results are useful to us during beta testing as we are looking for ratio's between valid and invalid and successes and errors.

So please allow them to finish running.

We are also looking for data on how long the workunits actually take and what variation exists between different workunits.

As a reference, we can run more work through beta in one day then we can in many weeks of our 'alpha' testing. Additionally, our alpha environment tends to have somewhat homogeneous computers compared to the diversity of computers that you all have.

The beta testing is an extremely valuable tool to us. But it is still testing and there will be oddities (oversized workunits, bad flops estimates, short deadlines, etc). Some of you might remember back before we had beta testing and these problems would always appear shortly after launch on many computers of people who are not as dedicate as you folks. This was a much bigger problem.

We definitely appreciate all of your comments and help - please keep them coming!
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Ian_UK
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Re: Beta WU Priority

Just a suggestion that might result in Betas being returned quicker and less crunchers seeing deadlines passing.

1) Artificially over estimate the time required for all Beta units (say at least double estimate or make them all 24hrs), so that BOINC will enforce the starting of the units quicker.
2) Increase the deadlines by the increased margin.

Agree this might result in other duration estimates being incorrect for a week or so, but this seems to happen anyway.

Also might want to consider updating the general Beta web page at some time to include information that invalid results etc. are useful, if timescales are overestimated, oddities we might find and any additional information you might like us to return.
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