Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 87
Posts: 87   Pages: 9   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 14601 times and has 86 replies Next Thread
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

I'm not seeing much in the way of DDDT Wu's ... is there a problem with them or are the changes being validated or are there just not many in the queue yet?

Are the flood gates going to be opened so that it's like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose?

Inquiring minds want to know! biggrin

TIA
[Aug 1, 2008 1:17:15 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
Former Community Advisor
Normandy - France
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Post Count: 3716
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

From what I have seen from results completed by some here already, the claim can be different to the granted credit, although not greatly so - so I imagine that Sek may be more on the button?

The claim can even be different from what the pure formula gives from the benchmark figures and the CPU time. When your result arrives in the server the history of results received from this same device is used to compute some more or less obvious*** correction which is applied to the pure formula result to give what will be the official claimed credits.

I am not much enthusiastic about that way of doing which makes it almost unpredictable or even impossible to check if a correction or an improvement that you bring to a device is effective or not and contributes certainly to the suspicion that you are referring to.

After past discussions backstage the techs have reduced the effect and the persistence of these corrections but I am sure they are still in use.

Cheers. Jean.

*** When I say "obvious" I use it regarding both its clarity and its real necessity.
----------------------------------------
Team--> Decrypthon -->Statistics/Join -->Thread
[Aug 1, 2008 1:24:24 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

I'm not seeing much in the way of DDDT Wu's ... is there a problem with them or are the changes being validated or are there just not many in the queue yet?

Are the flood gates going to be opened so that it's like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose?

Inquiring minds want to know! biggrin

TIA

Barney, customarily, which means usually, but not always, the flood gates are opened only teeny weeny on new project releases, so as to see how the numbers develop. If things hold close to the objective work will be released broadly.

Now sit back, relax and let things happen. Next week we'll organize a "lunch and learn".... off for lunch now ;>)

ciao
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
[Aug 1, 2008 1:45:56 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech
Joined: Nov 8, 2004
Post Count: 4504
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

The 1st round of the beta test was done to compute the test mini-workunits/benchmarks. This was done with redundancy to ensure that they were computed properly. We ensured that they went to all platform variations. This gave us a two things: A known mini-result and a base line credit to be awarded for that known result.

The mini workunits take about 10 minutes or so to run.

When a single redundancy result is returned, the mini workunit needs to match up with the value computed during the beta test (otherwise the result is marked invalid and the workunit is sent to someone else).

Additionally, we know how long the mini-workunit took to run on the computer and we know how how much credit the mini-workunit is worth, so based on the cpu time reported by the client we compute the credit for the full result.

After this is done, the credit for the mini workunit is averaged in with this hosts opinion of how much credit should be awarded for the mini workunit so that the value is a fair representation of the overall grid.

It is worth noting that we are not simply relying on a correct computation of the mini-workunit to determine validity. The computer must have already returned many results in a row as valid before it is allowed to go on its own. In addition, all workunits have a random chance of having an extra copy generated for them. This overall method gives high confidence in the quality of the data.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by knreed at Aug 1, 2008 1:57:57 PM]
[Aug 1, 2008 1:56:40 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change


...The computer must have already returned many results in a row as valid before it is allowed to go on its own. ...


knreed,

Thanks for that explanation... I don't mean to be a problem child... but I would certainly like to understand what kind of definition of "returned many results in a row" translates to...

I can imagine several possible translations... statistical; pure numeric / given time; etc.

Can you expound just a bit on how "many" is derived?
[Aug 1, 2008 2:33:22 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
Former Community Advisor
Normandy - France
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Post Count: 3716
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

After past discussions backstage the techs have reduced the effect and the persistence of these corrections but I am sure they are still in use.

I have just collected a number of single-redundancy DDDT results in a spreadsheet to do some analyzing and one thing is clear: the corrections to the claimed credits discussed above exist but the dispersion is below 0.25 % for this (stable) machine.

Edit: Added "the dispersion"

Cheers. Jean.
----------------------------------------
Team--> Decrypthon -->Statistics/Join -->Thread
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by JmBoullier at Aug 1, 2008 2:46:39 PM]
[Aug 1, 2008 2:36:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

'but' or 'and' Jean?

Now the morning session shows the fast returners getting above average credit with 80.81 WCG points per hour (tongue in cheek)


----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
[Aug 1, 2008 2:39:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change


...The computer must have already returned many results in a row as valid before it is allowed to go on its own. ...


knreed,

Thanks for that explanation... I don't mean to be a problem child... but I would certainly like to understand what kind of definition of "returned many results in a row" translates to...

I can imagine several possible translations... statistical; pure numeric / given time; etc.

Can you expound just a bit on how "many" is derived?

The evil explanation is, that even 1 bad result will make you go back to the starting line. wink From what was posted yesterday, 88.5% was allowed to run a one (wo)man show, so better not cancel that job mid computation or you effect the grids efficiency (if feeling guilty, do tongue )

Meany Me

PS, but seriously Barney, look in your Result Status page and see if your DDDTs have run single or double jointed.
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Aug 1, 2008 2:45:08 PM]
[Aug 1, 2008 2:43:26 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
Former Community Advisor
Normandy - France
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Post Count: 3716
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

'but' or 'and' Jean?

And is correct too but just stating the facts.
The "but" was adding a little more personal comment: I still consider as an inconvenience that the claimed credit per hour is not a pure constant (during the same benchmark period) "but" with such a small dispersion it is a very minor inconvenience.

Regarding Barney, maybe I am reading too much between lines but my understanding is that he is not getting DDDTs at all (or at least very few) and Kevin's explanation makes me wonder if there have been WUs of this first batch sent to (not yet) reliable machines.

Cheers. Jean.
----------------------------------------
Team--> Decrypthon -->Statistics/Join -->Thread
[Aug 1, 2008 3:02:53 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher
USA
Joined: Jul 4, 2006
Post Count: 7844
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: DDDT Single Redundancy Change

I have just collected a number of single-redundancy DDDT results in a spreadsheet to do some analyzing and one thing is clear: the corrections to the claimed credits discussed above exist but the dispersion is below 0.25 % for this (stable) machine.


In an effort to be helpful, rather than "dispersion" the word "discrepancy" may be closer to the meaning you are trying to convey. Once again, your observations are most helpful.

Thank you.
----------------------------------------
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
[Aug 1, 2008 3:40:38 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 87   Pages: 9   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread