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Mysteron347
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

Personally, I object to the philosophy that the individual should have to go to these lengths to avoid thieves.

It's the thief's responsibility not to break into my property. It's the thief's problem if he is injured whilst intruding. These people are in the minority. It's society's responsibility to lock them up - along with the do-gooders who will go to any lengths to imagine excuses for them and the lawyer-leeches that profit by their misdeeds.

It's time that society stopped blaming itself for the actions of these people and penalised the perpetrators, not the victims.

And that means that insurance companies should not be allowed to offer different rates depending on the degree of security that you have installed. Only when the majority is forced to take notice will they be moved to demand action from the politicians.
[Jan 24, 2008 2:22:37 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

I think a good part of the problem is the system we live in. Most of the blame is put on individuals when something bad happens. If someone breaks into your vehicle then you shouldn't have had a radar detector in plain sight, you should have hidden money or not had anything valuable in the car. If you get sick, injured or become disabled then you must have did something bad to cause that to happen.

I could give a lot of examples if I wanted and show how the system wants to put responsibility(just another word for blame) on the individual when something bad happens. I am willing to take some responsbility, however I believe a larger amount of our problems are a natural 'byproduct' of the system from which we are born into bondage. Obviously, not everyone will experience the same hardships and it will very depending on social status and other factors. Someone with less economic power living in an apartment complex will more likely experience a vehicle breaks and theft then someone living in a ritzy neighborhood. Statistics might not reflect this and could be argued. However, statistics can be nothing more then the art of lying and deception. Something private educational institutes have mastered to attract students into big debts.

As for 'Lock Bumping', I blame it on manufactures for keeping a known security flaw in locks for so long. It is NOT your fault, mine nor the criminal they sell us half crappy locks. Like it was stated, try going down to Home Depot or Lowe's and finding a 'commercial grade(ANSI Grade 1 Security)' lock for your house!

Here is a quick You Tube video I made showing how anyone can quickly rake a top of the line residential lock bought from Home Depot(ANSI Security Grade 2). I use a paperclip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwgky22NaJg
[Jan 25, 2008 1:33:08 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

You can pick many pin-tumbler locks with 2 properly bent paper clips.

Look at your key's profile. If it has very deep cuts next to very shallow cuts, it will be difficult or impossible to pick using a standard pick. In those cases you need something with a little more power such as electric lock pick or high output electric pick

By the way, combo locks aren't that safe either. The safest locks use flat keys with indentations of varying depths or shapes in the key, but good luck finding one for a residential lock at Lowes or Home Depot.

To protect your home, use an alarm system connected to a wireless phone. There are products like Dock-n-talk that will let you use a cheap cell phone as a land line. The first thing a good burglar will do is cut the phone line. Wireless phones are subject to jamming, but you'll have to be pretty rich to attract the caliber of burglar who is going to capable of that.


Well, it looks like you need a special type of custom made Bump Key for higher security locks having a 'Space and Depth' cut. These types of locks seem standard in commercial applications.

Here is a video of bumping a commercial grade Weiser lock with 'Space and Depth' cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OmhZLRMZtk
[Jan 26, 2008 7:10:20 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

I wouldn't call that a high-security lock. It's a little better than average but even the new Schlage lock I installed has a more radical profile than that and I don't think it's considered high security.

I went to look for a high security padlock I have that has really deep cuts. I was going to attach an image of the profile but couldn't find it.

Aside from having a sharply jagged profile, also look for locks with at least 7 pins. Avoid locks with master keys since they are easier to pick (more shear points since there are more segments to each pin). And finally, buy a brand name known for quality manufacture since the pin channels will be more likely to be perfectly straight (harder to pick one pin at a time) and they will use stronger springs in the pin assemblies. A stronger spring will make it harder to pick.

I think Medeco - http://www.medeco.com/ - is regarded as being one of the best. They even have a link on their home page about key bumping.

Unfortunately, all pin tumbler locks are vulnerable to electric pick guns so for true high grade security, you need specialty locks - see for example http://www.kdlock.com/
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[Jan 26, 2008 8:18:42 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

Yes, some SCHLAGE dead bolts are as easier then others. I tried to bump a friends SCHLAGE lock that had a solid steel cylinder inside a tarnished brass looking shell. I made a few attempts to bump and they all failed. I then looked at the profile of the key and it was really jagged looking and had a stair case like profile.

I compared the low cut bump key to the jagged, stair case profile and realized the bump key was probably cut to low toward the front of the lock to work on all the pins. So apparently some SCHLAGE dead bolts do offer protection against the 'conventional' bump key. However, I believe with a few custom cuts a bump key could defeat it. I can't imagine any criminal carrying around 5 versions of the same bump key and trying to bump a lock when a breaking a window is more easier.

Perhaps lock bumping is more hype then reality? Like you said an electric pick gun can defeat most locks anyway. I do not own any pick gun yet so I cannot verify how effective they are. I noticed they have a gun that you physically squeeze and an electric version. I would assume a manual squeezed pick gun would have the same effect as electric? Note: the manual gun is less than 1/3 the cost of electric.
[Jan 27, 2008 2:58:14 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

I do not own any pick gun yet so I cannot verify how effective they are. I noticed they have a gun that you physically squeeze and an electric version. I would assume a manual squeezed pick gun would have the same effect as electric? Note: the manual gun is less than 1/3 the cost of electric.

I have the manual one but not the electric - never could justify the expense for the occasional locked door or cabinet. The electric works much better - at least it should - since it hits the pins many times per second. So the pin segments are always in motion. This gives you a much better chance of catching them all at their shear point and turning the lock. I would guess that the high output model is for locks with very strong springs or very deep key cuts.

If you get one, I'd be interested to see how it performs on different types of locks. The pick gun only seems to work well on normal locks. So there's no real advantage over manual picking except it is usually a lot faster and you're less likely to damage the pins than by raking a pick in and out. Still, I couldn't get it to open the high security pad lock I mentioned before. Most guns have an adjustable tension setting so you can have it slam into the pins lightly or more firmly, but I could not find a setting that worked.
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[Jan 27, 2008 4:14:32 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

Do you have any model number for the high security lock? It's not a warded lock?

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?...64910010&pid=_Froogle

Of course civilian available warded locks are easy to pick with a warded pick set from what I've seen on Youtube.

These guys are manually picking two locks they consider high security.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZU6q-YSh6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E6IhSAkys4

High security might be a relative term in our everyday civilian and experience.
[Jan 27, 2008 1:34:39 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

Here's a link for the manufacturer's product page - http://www.masterlock.com/cgi-bin/product_det...d=D43111&template=app

The key on this is much shorter than I remember though. Anyway, this is the guy I was unable to pick using a manual pick gun or standard picks. However I would not be surprised if someone with the expertise could pick it using the method in the videos.

It looks like they're picking them one pin at a time. I don't know if it's still true, but it used to be that manufacturers could never get the pin channels perfectly straight. That meant that you would feel around for the pin furthest off center and raise it to its shear point. If you keep a little bit of turning pressure on the key gate, the top half of the pin would hang up in the channel and the lower half would just fall back down.

But you have to pick each pin like that. That takes a lot of practice and a very good sense of touch. That's why quality of manufacture makes such a big difference. If the pins are in perfect alignment, I doubt you could do this - at least not in any reasonable amount of time.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Jan 27, 2008 6:49:39 PM]
[Jan 27, 2008 6:41:43 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

It looks similiar to the lock this guy picks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRO9Xw10oho

master lock 930 high security spp

Wish I had the money for an electric pick gun. There are some YouTube video's on how to make your own. It might be cheaper just to convert a cordless hair clippers or something into an electric pick?

I suspect better quality locks just sort out the people with mediocre skill from the truly skilled?
[Jan 27, 2008 11:21:30 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: LOCK BUMPING! A new SECURITY THREAT to everyone.

After taking a look at the SCHLAGE line of PROFESSIONAL SECURITY dead bolts I think the bump key is way over-rated. Someone would need at least 12 versions of a that particular bump key(Schlage SC1) to even attempt to open most possible combination of pins that could exist!

I would say, the standard bump key cut will not work against most dead bolt locks being sold on the hardware shelves today. They have been manufactured to prevent standard cut bump keys from working. The cut on all of the dead bolts I seen is too high and there are to many variances of high and low cuts.

I think the media tries to use scare tactics and over sell news to us all.
[Jan 28, 2008 11:51:06 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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