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twilyth
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

What I don't understand is, aren't there special building codes for areas that are threatened by wild fires - just like the regs they have for earthquakes? If you have non-flammable materials for the exterior construction, wouldn't that make the houses invulnerable to fire? The only way I can see that this wouldn't work would be if the fires raised temps in the houses to the flash point. Is that what happens?
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[Oct 24, 2007 6:06:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

I am just guessing here, but with wind gusts up to 70 mph, burning branches can be carried several hundred feet. They can lodge anywhere on the roof or against any wall, which makes very fireproof construction necessary. I suspect that it is difficult to build a truly fireproof home if you mandate lightweight roofing materials in earthquake zones. Reinforced adobe (without wooden doors or wooden shutters) would do well for the walls. The lightweight roof constructed of cheap thermally non-conductive material that will not transmit heat to a wooden roofing framework = = well, my mind is blank when I try to think of an answer.

But there are probably some examples where innovative builders have solved all these problems. We'll see them standing in isolated splendor after the flame front passes. Like the hurricane-resistant homes that a few people built in Florida where Hurricane Andrew struck rather than relying on developer-built standard designs.

Lawrence
[Oct 24, 2007 8:13:19 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

I am just guessing here, but with wind gusts up to 70 mph, burning branches can be carried several hundred feet. They can lodge anywhere on the roof or against any wall, which makes very fireproof construction necessary.

That occurred to me after I posted. Even if you build with metallic roofing material - and I'm talking some very stylish textured metal "shingles" not a tin roof - and have reinforced masonry walls, the windows are still the weak link. Extreme temps can cause them to crack. High winds can blow them out. And even moderate winds can blow firebrands right through them. The only solution would be the kind of hurricane windows that are sometimes used around the gulf of mexico.

I guess it comes down to weighing risk and reward. Do you build a home for 2 million that is virtually fire proof or one for half the price that isn't. Metal roofing I believe is at least double the cost of asphalt shingles - although I haven't looked into this in a while. And obviously masonry is more expensive than wood frame.

However how many times does something like this have to happen before the state government decides it's time to impose more stringent building regs? This isn't like many places down south were people can't afford to build safe homes. From what I understand, the areas affected by the fires are extremely affluent. Maybe the home owners didn't know any better, but the builders and state government certainly should have.
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[Oct 24, 2007 8:31:42 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

I have been using Rough&Tumble to follow California news since 2000: http://www.rtumble.com/

Here is an interesting article about San Diego fire readiness: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez...mp;ctrack=3&cset=true
It probably requires a login. I am set on all the major CA papers, so I never notice.

Lawrence

Added: Fire-resistant homes: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-saved...mp;ctrack=4&cset=true
I am suspicious about tile roofs in earthquake zones, unlike the reporter.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 24, 2007 9:43:20 PM]
[Oct 24, 2007 9:37:14 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Fire Disaster in California


Here is an interesting article about San Diego fire readiness: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez...mp;ctrack=3&cset=true
It probably requires a login.
Lawrence



I did try to log in - got a message, part of which reads:-

You may also need to adjust your firewall
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 27, 2007 7:40:49 PM]
[Oct 24, 2007 9:55:13 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

i think some people put houses in very high-risk areas, where normal insurance companies will not even give them a policy.

it is like those people who keep building in areas that get flooded regularly.

it may not be an issue of house quality but whether people should be living there at all.
[Oct 24, 2007 9:55:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

I have been using Rough&Tumble to follow California news since 2000: http://www.rtumble.com/

Here is an interesting article about San Diego fire readiness: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez...mp;ctrack=3&cset=true
It probably requires a login. I am set on all the major CA papers, so I never notice.

Lawrence

Added: Fire-resistant homes: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-saved...mp;ctrack=4&cset=true
I am suspicious about tile roofs in earthquake zones, unlike the reporter.

I had a hard time getting the article, but it was definitely worth it
When he isn't growing Malbec and Cabernet Franc grapes on the 1-acre vineyard in front of his retreat, Bowman works as a consultant to fire departments and municipalities. With 16 years as chief in Anaheim and four in San Diego before quitting over staffing and resource issues, he's got strong opinions on San Diego's long, proud culture of skimping on services to keep taxes low.

There's no way to adequately staff for fires of this magnitude, Bowman says, and he doesn't want to turn so much scorched earth and misery into an I-told-you-so speech. But as we drive to get his mother, he can't help but go over some of the facts.

Although the city of San Diego has a fire department, the county doesn't, leaving many suburban and rural areas to rely on volunteer departments. The city has but one firefighting helicopter and just 975 firefighters for 330 square miles and 1.3 million residents.

Compare that, he says, with San Francisco, which has 1,600 firefighters for 60 square miles and 850,000 people.

"San Diego practices the biggest don't-tax-me campaign I've seen," says Bowman, a proud, lifelong Republican. Fine, he says, don't raise taxes. But reevaluate how money is spent and redistribute it to public safety.

A number of San Diego suburbs have the same resource problems, he says, and are more inclined to invest in evacuation technology than fire prevention and suppression.

"It's a lot cheaper," he says. "I've had the hardest time with the culture of 'We can do more with less.' "

It looks like the majority of the people made their choices a long time ago.
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[Oct 24, 2007 9:56:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

Well it looks like they are finally getting some relief from the high winds and hopefully they will be able to get the fires under control.
[Oct 25, 2007 1:34:24 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

Well it looks like they are finally getting some relief from the high winds and hopefully they will be able to get the fires under control.

Soon, we hope, all that will be left to do will be to get the polititians under control.
[Oct 25, 2007 1:45:04 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
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Re: Fire Distaster in Califorina

Well it looks like they are finally getting some relief from the high winds and hopefully they will be able to get the fires under control.


Yes, the situation is much better this morning. However, of the 15 fires, one has been identified as an "arson" and two are under arson investigation. I can no more understand the mind of an arsonist than I can the mind of a pedophile! Unfortunally, there are some mentally sick people in this world.

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