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ebahapo
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tongue Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

I noticed that some results returned by systems running the 64-bit BOINC client are punished because the claimed credit is much higher than that of other systems (e.g., this WU).

It's less a problem with using the client's benchmarks to assign credits than with the client. The 64-bit client was built with vectorization enabled, so the benchmark results it reports reflect this. Moreover, this particular system throttles its clock frequency automatically and when it runs the benchmarks, the frequency is pegged to the max, but not when running project applications, when the frequency is lowered due to their low priority.

Many other projects assign credits based on the final run-time and the number of operations in the WU. WCG is the only project in which these systems are punished. If counting such systems as outliers is necessary, fine, but it's not fair to have them punished for contributing to WCG.
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[Mar 16, 2007 6:22:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

Augustine, you need to include a copy past of the list as only u can see it....we get an empty screen with column headers.
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WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Mar 16, 2007 6:37:33 PM]
[Mar 16, 2007 6:36:40 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ebahapo
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

Here's what I see:


Workunit Name Status Sent Time Time Due / Return Time CPU Time (hours) Claimed/ Granted BOINC Credit
faah1411_ d202n447_ x2BPW_ 01-- Valid 03/16/2007 02:30:13 03/16/2007 08:32:09 5.60 122.9 / 24.2
faah1411_ d202n447_ x2BPW_ 01-- Valid 03/16/2007 02:30:10 03/16/2007 12:15:45 4.28 56.3 / 48.3
faah1411_ d202n447_ x2BPW_ 01-- Valid 03/16/2007 02:25:38 03/16/2007 15:20:21 10.45 40.4 / 48.3

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[Mar 16, 2007 7:42:19 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
cio_redulla
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

I noticed that some results returned by systems running the 64-bit BOINC client are punished because the claimed credit is much higher than that of other systems (e.g., this WU).

It's less a problem with using the client's benchmarks to assign credits than with the client. The 64-bit client was built with vectorization enabled, so the benchmark results it reports reflect this. Moreover, this particular system throttles its clock frequency automatically and when it runs the benchmarks, the frequency is pegged to the max, but not when running project applications, when the frequency is lowered due to their low priority.

Many other projects assign credits based on the final run-time and the number of operations in the WU. WCG is the only project in which these systems are punished. If counting such systems as outliers is necessary, fine, but it's not fair to have them punished for contributing to WCG.


"Moreover, this particular system throttles its clock frequency automatically and when it runs the benchmarks, the frequency is pegged to the max, but not when running project applications, when the frequency is lowered due to their low priority."

I think the frequency of the computer is at its maximum even when it is only running project applications. This is especially true if you set the BOINC throttle to 100%. The frequency of your processor is the same whether you are running benchmarks or WCG. Even in laptops (with Speedstep enabled for Intel processors), the frequency is maximum when the demand for CPU time is 100% or when the project applications are the only programs using CPU time. You are being given a much lower credit because your system is claiming too high. It is being treated as an outlier as can be seen from the claimed credits column.


cio_redulla
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[Mar 16, 2007 10:38:59 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ebahapo
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

The frequency of your processor is the same whether you are running benchmarks or WCG.

Not in Linux, no.
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[Mar 17, 2007 1:44:24 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

emenezes, where did you get your client from?
[Mar 18, 2007 7:22:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ebahapo
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confused Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

Didactylos,
emenezes, where did you get your client from?

As I stated at the top of this thread, I use the 64-bit BOINC client which I myself built, as there's no official 64-bit version.
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[Mar 19, 2007 4:09:29 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

Ah, you missed out the "built it myself" bit. Sounds like you broke the benchmark (quite by accident) by optimising it away.

You see, compiling the client with all sorts of optimisations and extra CPU features makes absolutely no difference to the work you crunch for WCG. None. Zero. Sorry.

So, if you turn on loads of extra features in building the client, then the benchmark will go super-fast (after all, the entire benchmark can generally fit into L1 cache) - but the actual work is unaffected. Until you come to calculate the points you will claim. And the super-fast and completely wrong benchmark provides you with a totally wrong claim.

And WCG penalise crazily high claims. Partly to stop you getting an insanely high score, and partly to alert you to the fact that your benchmark is out of whack.

Please ask if any of this is unclear.

The bottom line is this: if you have a fancy super-fast computer, then you get more points by doing more work. You do not get more credit for doing the same work as someone else. You should claim exactly the average for each work unit - only you will be claiming for many, many more work units.
[Mar 19, 2007 5:40:32 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ebahapo
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Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

Ah, you missed out the "built it myself" bit. Sounds like you broke the benchmark (quite by accident) by optimising it away.

It's probably in part this, as I enabled vectorization, but there's another factor: CPU throttling for power saving. When the BOINC client runs the benchmarks, it does so using normal priority, therefore the CPU clock governor increases the CPU frequency. But when the application is run, using the lowest priority the possible, the CPU governor will not increase the CPU frequency above base-line. At least this is how the governor works in Linux. So it's probably a combination of both factors.

As I suggested above, other projects ignore the claimed credit by the client and just assign credits depending on the number of operations in the WU, if possible, and the time it took to complete.

I'll rebuild the client without vectorization, but I ask you to consider the effects of CPU throttling as well.

Thanks.
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[Mar 19, 2007 8:34:09 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ebahapo
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cool Re: Hey, Stop Punishing Me!

I'll rebuild the client without vectorization, but I ask you to consider the effects of CPU throttling as well.

It wasn't enabling vectorization that undid the benchmarks, but what I stated earlier about Linux ignoring low-priority applications when throttling the CPU clock whereas the benchmarks are run with normal priority, when the CPU clocked is pegged up.

It's pretty bad on this particular system because it varies the CPU clock between 1 and 2.2GHz, thus the discrepancy between claimed (based on benchmarks results with the CPU clock pegged) and the actual credits (based on the application running with the CPU clock throttled).

I submitted a patch in the BOINC development mailing-list to correct this and it should be in the next client release.

Meanwhile, I rebuilt the client with this patch and the benchmarks results are lower, reflecting the actual performance of this system when the CPU clock is throttled. I will keep an eye on its results.
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[Mar 20, 2007 10:21:46 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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